cowtown

You're talking apples and oranges then. Not sure what the point of talking about your car in this thread is. Most cars are stock/slightly modified.

Mark in Baltimore

Exactly. Not trying to pick on you, Ken, but comparatives must be comparable.

race911

And my point was simply that since you can't go down to the 1973 Porsche store and order yours up. So you take them as you find them. With anything over, say, 25 years old, it becomes more of a needle in a haystack, doesn't it?

Another comparison. I have 2 RSA's. One has 42K, the other 136K. Which is more valuable? Well, the 42K'er is presently a wreck, but let's say it is professionally and accurately repaired to a concours standard. Upon full disclosure, is that car more valuable than the unmolested 136K'er?

I've been involved with these things for close to 30 years now. The one good thing about 993's is that it's unlikely they will be sacrificed in great quantity to the Gods of slopenosedom........

CP

I'm kind of sorry to have started this thread. I guess 'value' is truly in th eye of the beholder. I'm sure Kim will view Yellow Zonka going out the door at $40k as painfully low, and most of us will deem a 1995 with 125k miles as crazily high.

My only point, as I was talking to my wife, was that the Ruf, while being very precious to me, is not necessarily precious to the wide car-buying public at large. There may be 3-5 people in the whole US that appreciate the car for what it is and willing to pay a premium for it, but how do we find each other becomes a big question.

I was the one who found and paid for the Ruf with no questions asked back in 2003. The car was so rare and desirable to me, that I did not care what it took to land it and make it perfect. I will honestly tell you that the car is MUCH better (mechanically and cosmetically) than when it arrived from Germany. How many people will acknowledge that and pay a premium for the car? may be none.

If I get lucky, one day when I sell, I'll find the one buyer who appreciates the car for what it has, and the fact that it cannot be replicated, no matter how much one spends, and buys it accordingly.

CP

Mark in Baltimore

OMG, now I have to pick on you. You're comparing a wrecked 42K mile car with an uncrashed 136K mile car??? Again, apples to oranges.

To quote Boggs in Shawshank Redemption, "It's your world, boss."

race911

I thought, and clearly failed, it was valid to compare a car that was basically rebuilt (even though it was waaaaay outside the bounds of reconditioning to stock) to one that has nearly the miles yet is as it came off the assembly line. Even down to the shocks. Mission not accomplished. It's late, been up since 5 and spent half the day moving machines.

race911

Is it? All the funniness on '73RS's over the years come to mind. I can think of a couple I've had my hands on that made my stomach turn when I found out what the owners passed along as fact. And that was mainly that lower miles equaled some enhanced value.

mooty

mileage ITSELF doesn't dimish value.
mileage in COMPARISON to SIMILAR cars KILLS values.

my RS has 15k miles to date, probably the only RS in the world right now that cannot be sold at msrp. thus clearly milage hurts value.

a 100k miles 993 (stock) however good it may be, when compared to a 10k mile 993 (stock) both maintained to the nth degree, which car would comment higher value.

now dont give me that low milage cars has bad seals. i am talking about cars that are maintained beyond reason here... (both cars).

to truly compare value as a function of mileage, you must compare two items that are IDENTICAL with the ONLY exception being mileage.

i think many ppl have a lot of problems seeing it. when i had caymans i heard ppl asking me for the money, i can buy a GT3 or a 993. well, no, for the price of a NEW cayman i can buy an USED GT3 or 993. that is not a fair nor correct comparison in my opinion.

if you drove the car, you SHOULD pay for depreciation. this is like asking if i paid $1500 for a bottle of louis 13, i drank 1/2 of it, does it hurt its value.....

Randy 1

and thus you've defined the most simple of economic concepts: the equilibrium between supply and demand.

For the sake of debate, let's assume there are other enthusiasts like me and you that would appreciate such a rare and special steed. Let's also assume we both have a number in mind, a number arrived at after a fully informed search.

If you bought this car, fixed 'er up (you know, drifting tires, awesome decals, maybe squeezed some 19's into the wheel wells...the good stuff ) and could find no-one to buy it, then there's only a few solutions: you either paid too much for it, paid too much for the work, or you ascribe an emotional value that no-one else will pay for.

I believe you're an architect, so couch it in these terms: if you pay too much for the dirt, or you spend too much on the improvement (or spend too much on your A&E fees!), your basis in the project will be too high for you to achieve a market return on your investment.

In this case, I think you won't find someone to buy the car for what you think it should be worth because mixed in with the costs of refurbing the interior and the mechanical overhauls, you neither priced in the depreciation of more miles, but more importantly nor the attachment you've fostered with a machine after the cruicible of a long restoration.

I'm the proud (young) owner of a '96 C4S with 11,000 miles on it, and it's one of the few material things I have from my late father. In a rational world, I would quickly swap it for an equivalently maintained 10,000 mile car, but in real life, if someone offered me the Jerry Seinfeld blue Turbo S itself, I wouldn't trade it.

There are no logical reasons for buying and owning a Porsche. There is more rapid transport for less money and less headache. It is that visceral thrill that we get when we open the garage that we pay the premium for. My bet is that you get a bigger charge out of your morning than someone else will. Maybe it's the miles, but more than likely, it's that you took something great and made it a little bit better, and you're trying to get someone to put a dollar figure on you not having those experiences rush back when you turn the ignition. That's why you won't get the price you're looking for. As I said before, that's not a bad thing.

Wilder

Have you called RUF, Dallas to ask what they think it's worth? If you ever wanted to sell, I think they would probably be in the best position to value it and to find a buyer for it. Weissach in Vancouver would probably be a good second point of reference as would RUF in Germany.

CP

Louis,

This is more of a philosophical discussion than anything else. I am not thinking of selling the Ruf. When I do, it'll certainly have more than 120k miles on it. It's more of an academic evaluation at this point.

CP

NP993

Okay. So here is an idea that might, just might, help guide your thinking on this subject, presented in an academic jargony kind of way: There is an inverse relationship between the size of the number on a car's odometer and the size of its selling price, all other factors being equal.

Can someone kill this idiotic thread now?

sigf

At the end of the day, isn't a car only worth what someone is willing to pay despite its pedigree, condition, miles, etc?

msw

i would not 'pay more' for a car with 100K miles than 200K miles...i figure chances are they both will need engine 'work' in the future...

so you have plenty of more fun miles to go

with 200K, more likely but that will be reflected in the price...with over 100K, less likely but still a real possibility...so why pay more and 'gamble' on what you are getting

NP993

How do you reconcile this:

With this:

I nominate this thread as the sand-poundingly dumbest of the year.