autobonrun

I agree with you. To determine the direct impact of mileage, all other factors must be the same. However, it would be near impossible for everything else to be the same on any two cars. However, there are many other considerations that people bring into the final pricing decision. Every individual attaches there own weight to the importance of each to come up with a value in their own mind.

I think of the mag articles where various cars are compared by assigning a value from 1 to 10 then the total added up. Maybe not formally, but I think every buyer does something similar when shopping.

Things like: Mileage, Age, Car's History, Maintenance Records, modifications (some like them and some don't), Factory Options, Number of Owners, etc. etc. all factor into a car's value.

There's no doubt Rennlist members and other boards' members are far more knowledgeable of these cars than the general public, so they may be willing to buy a 150k mile car over a 120k mile car if the other factors I listed over ride the 30k mile difference; from their perspective. However, for the general buying public, mileage and age are the over riding considerations. Fortunately for owners of the older cars, enthusiasts that are looking for an older Porsche generally are knowledgeable. The general public would typically be attracted to a newer car with warranty, all things equal.

mooty

true, no two cars will be IDENTICAL. but my point is that
car 1 has fabspeed, recaro seats, black paint, 100k miles, no stories all original
car 2 has RS muffler, gt3 seats, black paint, 30k miles, no stories all orginal
car 3 has stock muffler, but was owned by schumacher and he occasionally drives to the ring to entertain his wife and he once chased hans stuck in it and even rubbed stuck's M3GTR's *** and left a mark there, 100k miles, no other stories.
car 4 has moton cs, rs suspension parts, 3.8L motor, harness, seats, roll bar, driven hard but full rebuilt 100k miles no other stories.

now car 1 and 2 are comparable and car 2 WILL fetch better price.
car 4 was a beat up car, but it's been rebuilt so it's not really a 100k miles car, it's a semi new car. this is very hard to compare against car 1 and 2. in fact, you cannot compare them at all.

car 3's value is even more nebulous. just b/c the car has schumies sweat all over it, it may or may not cost more. depends on how YOU cheerish his sweat. this car is also not comparable to car 1 and 2.

thus mileage may be a factor in car 3 and 4, but they probably have a small part in dertermining the price as compared to car 1 and 2. car 1 and 2's price differential would be based MOSTLY on milage and thus illustrates that mileage affects value. even for very rare cars. a 100k miles bugatti royale will fetch less than a 1000 miles bugatti royale.

gonzilla

You must be a glutton for punishment then.

c4consult

AS you said your btr is very rare. The one I bought from Ruf had many issues. The milage was unknown. They took the engine out and did a full rebuild, respray, tires brakes ect ect. I but in new sparco seats ruf wheel, light weight fly wheel,carbon fiber all,rs door pannels. The point I am making is I could have bought a new gt3, but it was not what I wanted. The btr is for someone who whants something different. And because of their rairty The milage is not the same issue it would have been if it was a High milage 993 twin turbo where you could compare and shop around for a low millage one. When and if you sell yours and somebody says the price is to high, simply say: Wheres Yours?

c4consult

call me when you go to sell.

msw

Noah,

To clarify...

I believe regardless of a PPI, buying a car with over 100K miles is a 'black box'

I would not pay more for 100K car vs. 200K as IMO, they both are at high risk of needing engine work and I don't think the risk is different enough to justify paying more for the 100K car...

Flying Finn

It must be, when I was looking at 328s 6 years ago and pretty much all of them had about 30k miles in them, go look at them and tell me how much miles 328s have today (hint: it's about 30k miles)...

tj90

I have a high mileage 993 (120k now). Ive tried to take the best care of it as I can. I know the car is loosing value, but it comforts me knowing that compared to other new cars (I was going to buy a G35 new) my depreciation hit with the 993 is pretty low in comparison. I dont take care of the car to increase value, but rather pride in ownership thing.
The best thing to do is to accept the fact that by driving the car, its loses value. Pray and hope that something drastic does not happen to it like tree falling on it, getting stolen or something out of your control. I enjoy the car as much as the day I bought it. If I sold today and subtract what I paid I would hope that Im not loosing more than $2k/year worst case.
I have a 97 ford pickup. Ive taken excellent care of it. I dont think I could get more than $4k if I was lucky! The truck is worth way more to me than what a potential buyer is willing to pay for it. Why do I continue to maintain it? Because I paid $20k for it 11 years ago so its cost me 20-4 = $16k/11 years = $1.4k/yr!!! With that low cost of ownership, I can justify continuing to maintain the truck for many more years. Im adopting the same philosophy with the 993.

Davies

Agree with tj. I'm at 126k miles and still enjoying every moment. I have a very good friend who has a '96 993 also, with 26k miles on it. He gets frustrated that he hardly ever gets to drive it. While his is of course worth more than mine, I have extracted much more "value" than can be measured in any hard currency. I commute daily in mine and decided to ENJOY the commute, rather than suffer through it in a ubiquitous tin box like most souls. It may sound corny, but the clock's ticking on your life, and I would rather use up the car with a smile on my face than save it for someone else to use up and enjoy. Never once thought about the depreciation. BTW - When I pull the 993 out for a wash on a Saturday morning, she shines up and looks just as stunning as my friend's low miler.

(BTW, Pong, I would do the same if I had a RUF also.)

SinVancouver

With history I dont think its a huge factor.. these cars seem to hit a mileage ceiling agt around 100K. Its pretty well know what can/will/should go on these cars as they age so its all there on the table.. with a good history its an easy to understand proposition. For me.. as cars age reasonable mileage is better then super low mileage.. a car thats 10 years old an has under 30K is more scary to me than the same car 100K, again as long the car is well documented.

Scott.

CP

Matt,

Good to know. I do drive A LOT. In close to 4 years, I piled on 23,000+ miles on the Ruf. That being strictly a weekend fun car, and substantial down time for freshening up etc. In those years, I did between 17k-20k miles in my daily drivers as well.

My Ruf had 97,000 miles when I got it, so there was no way I was going to save it. I love driving the car, but I don't do short trips. Save those for the Cayman etc. I'm thinking of taking the Ruf to Lake Tahoe in few weeks, especially if I'm by myself.

Most of the time, if I do not take the Ruf out, it's because we go in a big group (need more seats), or I'm with the Mrs. She'd go in the Cayman. Doesn't care much for the Ruf.

CP

Davies

Pong...You've go the right attitude! I love seeing the look on people's faces when I tell them my car has 126k miles (let alone that it's 11 years old..)
BTW - I convinced my friend, (the one with the 26k mile garage queen) to buy the same RUF wheels as you, based on a picture of your car here on Rennlist. He was gushing over the way your RUF looked. One thing's certain - Miles don't diminish the appeal!

CP

Matt,

That's an honor. You think you can snap some pics of his car/wheels and post them here? I honestly had NOT seen another 993 with the modular Ruf wheels. Plenty of the one-piece Ruf wheels, no modulars yet.

To be honest, if I sell my Ruf, I trust I have so many unique features in my car that the buyer might well disregard the miles. many of the items on my car are truly irreplacable.

For those who had not followed my Ruf, here's a recap of what it is:

1995 C2, Ruf BTR-2: meaning single K27 turbo, narrow-body, rear wheel drive. Try to find another one like this. Oh yeah, C4Consult's beauty.

U.S. spec 993, no gray-market federalized import here. Passed all CA smogs with flying colors. Yet all conversion work done at Ruf at Phaffenhausen. in 2000 and 75k miles on the odo. That is truly unique.

426 HP at crank, 438 ft/lb tq. Verified by a number of dyno runs, including at Ruf Phaffenhausen.

0-60: 3.7 seconds. 0-200 KM/H: 11.9 seconds. Top speed: 196 MPH. Brandon Krause drove it to a sub 2 minute lap at Thunderhill this spring.

Titanium conrods and other internal parts: full documentation from Ruf Phaffenhausen.

Recaro A8 race seats.

Unique one-off original gold-package courtesy of Alois to his buddy Charles Huebner. Alois' autograph is on the visor.

All Ruf bits and insignia: TechArt bumper inserts, RS front and side splitters, Ruf special gearing, Ruf wiring harness, Ruf Motronics ECU, Ruf lightweight flywheel, heavy duty RS clutch, with heavy duty pressure plate, RUF steering rack, Ruf 14" 3-spoke sport steering wheel, Turbo S wing, SS door seals, Alum shift ****, badges, CF aero-mirrors, rain gutter fairings, exhaust tips, TechArt padel sets, etc. etc. I will eventually do the Ruf green gages before I'm done.

Three-piece modular Ruf wheels.

PSS9s, ROW ride heights.

Big Red brakes custom calipers with Ruf logos.

Ruf plenum, and 100 cell race CATs. What a symphonic sound!!

Heck, with all of the above, what's 120k miles amongst friends.

CP

Marlon

My 95' 993 with 107K miles is an absolute monster. For some reason it literally wants to leap off the ground under WOT. It's actaully kind of scary - sort of reminds me the first time I drove a late 60's 911S and was amazed at how fast the engine redlined (although the black car is kind of spineless below 4K). My red car runs great, but the black car feels 500lbs lighter and the engine just screams. I am looking at yanking the 107K mile motor, having it 'refreshed' (whatever that will entail) and dropping it into the lower milage red car. Just a pipe dream...

c4consult

brother btr, does you btr have a sun roof or rear seats?