stubenhocker

I agree with you re 996, but how many times do you hear 993 buyers rationalize, well these cars are only going to get more valuable over time? They are not doing it primarily as an investment, but it is a factor in current pricing.

GaryB

As an avid 993 shopper I'm collecting as much info as I can about pricing and availabilty.

Those who may think Bruce Anderson's numbers are a bit low might be interested in the Porsche Market Letter. Google the web site for more info.

I just received the July issue which covers the late 911s. For instance, a '97 C4S is listed with a median price of $51,412.

Gary B. in Friday Harbor

AShearer

This is great information. Thank you.

pcar964

ok, I'm putting "ignoramus" back on the table. Anyone who still totes the line "Buy the newest Porsche you can afford" is an ignoramus.

cgfen

_________________________________________________________________

this is a copy of a letter i mailed to Bruce C/O Excellence.
To my knowledge, i never got a reply.

Mr. Anderson,

Greetings.
Let me preface this by saying that my Porsche experience is limited to a bit of playing in a friends 911 in the mid 80’s and more recently my wife’s very positive experience of ordering and buying her Cayman S. Since she was so kind as to do this for us, my eyes have been opened to the world of Porsche. I thought that I had put “interesting cars” behind me decades ago since I was racing bicycles and driving either full size vans of Subaru wagons……………
Not so, because for the past 5 months I’ve been a bit obsessive about reading / researching / driving different P cars.

I’ve narrowed down my hunt to 96 or 97 993 NB coupe. I’ve read your interesting bits in Excellence ( I just spoke to Abby and subscribed and ordered a copy of TN 2 ) and would like to ask a question regarding market updates. I know that this is probably a touchy area, but in my 5 months of searching, 993 prices ( asking ) are seemingly 15 – 20% higher than those listed in the market update. Can you help me understand why? I would assume that;
1. not knowing actual selling prices.
2. 993 owners looking at their cars values through “rose-colored-glasses”
3. my mainly shopping for low miles, 30 – 50k examples
4. geographic differences ( I live in San Diego, but am shopping country wide ).
5. Excellence possibly using too small a sample data set
6. dealer vs private owner pricing

all contribute to this perception for me. Have I missed anything?
Do you have actual buyers writing you and describing the purchase? In my short experience I’ve never seen a Reader Sales Report where you say, Whoa, this person paid X dollars over our range, he / she got ripped off. Do people not provide you with this potentially embarrassing info, or do you not choose to print them?

I know, I know, so many questions from someone you don’t know. I’d appreciate a response if you have the time. If like me, you’d prefer to talk rather than type, feel free to ring me up on my mobile.
If you do, please let me know when is a good time to ring you back. I often travel on biz and may not be able to take your call immediately.

Best regards


Craig Fenstermaker

RallyJon

I'm on the wrong coast to have seen him in person, but my cynicism started with 911 Performance Handbook. Before I owned a Porsche, I read it word by word and thought it was the greatest thing ever. Once I got my first Porsche and started to modify and troubleshoot, it became apparent to me just how shallow and inaccurate the book was. Drove me nuts--I felt betrayed. When the second edition came out, I ordered it immediately, figuring all the mistakes and half-assed chapters would be fixed and expanded. Nope.

You think of someone as a guru and profound repository of knowledge, then you realize a decent percentage of what he puts to paper is inaccurate, poorly researched, incomplete, or (in the case of prices) pure, demonstrable bs. Or maybe something he thought was true 30 years ago.

The tech articles he writes for Excellence could often be answered more completely and accurately with a 3 min search here or on Pelican.

Sorry, the shine is off. Glad he's better in person.

AShearer

This is a great question. I wonder the same thing. Clearly, the market prices are higher. Maybe it's the state registrations?

It's obvious there is no source to buy a 993 at the kind of prices quoted. There are so few of them. That, or course is one BIG reason the prices are so high. Supply and demand. Each individual rationalizes their purchase in their own way, but what ultimately drives the price is supply and demand. I just did a tremendous amount of research and ended up paying $56K for a 17K mile C4S that looks like new. There is no way to "rationalize" that. It's what I wanted, it was as good a deal as I could find. The mileage and condition were more important to me than price. After a couple grand for new tires and some really serious service, (read: NOT repairs) , I have a 97 car that for all purposes is like a new car.

It might appreciate, it might hold steady, it might depreciate. I don't know. Don't have a way to measure the "desire" factor going forward.

Here's an interesting thought? When the time comes that you can buy a 997 with reasonable miles for the same price as a 993, will that change things? There are a lot of them out there.

jimhsu

that may be the case for those who don't care and just want in to the Prosche fraternity, but there is so much difference between the older 993 and the newer 996 and 997 for example that it just does not apply.

And it's not just aircool vs watercool; some may love the 911SC over the 993, for something specific to the SC; in that case that buyer should get the newest 911SC he can afford.

jimhsu

I do think that the prices we see are almost all ASKING prices, and are usually lowered a bit by the time the car sells; but Bruce Anderson's prices are ridiculously low I wish he would tell me where he's finding his excellent 993s for the prices he's quoting.

Davies

While I agree that Bruce's numbers re: 993s are absurd, I think the above statement is a tad unfair.
I know most of us here probably aren't personally in a down economy, but on a macro level, median wages have slipped almost 2% (first time since WW2) when factoring in inflation.

Sure the stock market's booming and unemployment is low, but the US economy isn't considered "up" or "down" without also factoring in median (not average) wage growth vs. inflation.

RallyJon

Within the used 986/996 target market? I know for a fact that the key Boxster market of $60-90k a year engineers has been doing quite well. Serious wage increases among production level knowledge workers. I assume their project managers (who might be in the market for a used 996) are doing OK too.

Again, if someone's going to write something like that, they should check it for accuracy and support it.

DaveM993

Actually I have never heard someone say that to me. What I have heard as a rationalization is that they will depreciate less...which based on the current data is true. Again, I don't know of anyone who seriously buys a 993 as an investment that will appreciate in value...so I do not think that "speculation" is a factor in the current 993 values.

Although "ignoramus" is definitely inappropriate, I have to agree that if you are going to put yourself out there as the "expert" (and in some areas he certainly is), anything that is published commercially as a "expert advice or opinion" is worthy of close scrutiny and challenge. The problem with the numbers is they are not even close...and that should be of concern to Excellence.

dcdude

Re: Manipulation of information by insurance companies, that's another great reason to have a collector policy for an "agreed value" which YOU get to stipulate.

Admittedly, there are mileage/usage restictions, but is there any reason why you can't ALSO have coverage by Geico or Progressive or whomever that actually let's you DRIVE the car? I guess we all need to go read the fine print on our policies (great sleep aid). With the collector policy only running $300 - $800, the combination may not be too expensive for some...

Davies

RallyJon...I concede that you're right there. While Mr Anderson was technically correct about "The Economy," that probably has very little bearing on the economies of those who are in the market for a Porsche.

porsche fever

until he gets realistic on prices I will not subscribe to the mag. I use to keep old copies for reference but with this web site, not needed!