Which 993 to purchase?
06-09-2007, 04:35 PM
#1
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Which 993 to purchase?
Hello All,
I just joined and this is my first post. I think this is in the correct forum. If not, please correct me.
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks. I want to thank everyone for all of the great posts from the past. As a newbie, I find the archives here to be one of the best sources for researching specific issues and opinions. Thank you all for what you have created. I hope I can someday return the favor.
I come to you not only with a compliment but also with my hand out :-) I need some help from those of you who have some experience in two specific areas. First is C2 (RWD) vs. C4(AWD). Second is Cabriolet vs. Coup.
I (We) are getting a 993 as soon as we can find one and settle on a model. So far we know we are sure of is that we want a 993. I have been looking for a C4C. We’ve found one, but now my wife has a couple of “last minute” concerns. We have debated the cabriolet choice and then AWD vs. RWD. I do see her concerns and agree with most of them.
I have never had a full convertible or cabriolet. I had a FixItAgainTony X-19, which was a Targa type top and a Lotus Super-7(no top at all), which was only driven on the track. Many years ago, my wife had a brand new TR-6 convertible.
I lived in a cooler environment and went topless whenever it was not raining too hard. She lived I Southern Calif. She rarely took the top down. Between the glare, hot sun, stinky exhaust in traffic, and the A/C not working due to no roof. She just didn’t take the top down much at all.
Now we live in Las Vegas 85% of the time and in the pacific northwest the rest of the time. While the sunny weather and warm nights makes the cabriolet sound perfect, my wife brings up some very valid points. I can’t see myself sitting at a stop light, smelling fumes and sweating at 110 F.
The car will not be our daily driver. She feels safer in traffic in our 1-ton dually. If I go anywhere, I’ll take the 993, but that is not a daily occurrence. If I leave the property more than twice a week; it would be a very busy week. I may someday track it, but a hill climb or two is more likely. We can see participating in some rallies, taking it out on the LV strip and the obligatory “Sunday drive” through the beautiful desert or up in California’s Napa Valley.
Is it true that convertibles/cabriolets are rarely allowed to race(autocross) due to safety concerns? This is not a primary concern, but I do want to keep my options open.
Has anybody ever seen this hardtop for a 993? It does seem functional.
Porsche 911 / 964 / 993 Strosek style Hardtop - eBay auction#180127403529
Our other choice that is hanging us up is C2 vs. C4. We occasionally visit areas that rain and may have icy roads. Knowing that the AWD is more forgiving on a dry road, too is a big plus. My wife likes the idea of how well an AWD/4WD hugs the road. We have another vehicle that is very safe in the snow. It is a 4x4, well… in reality is a 6x6, but that is a debate for another day :-)
I also hate expensive options that break more often or easily than they should or take a gross amount of extra maintenance. How well built is the AWD transmission/system? How big of a cost differences for rebuild/replacement...Or is this not much of an issue? Its not that I can’t afford the repairs/maint, I simply want to be better informed as to my future expenses. I never mind scheduled maint. But I do hate surprise repairs.
I must say that the little accountant/actuary in me wants to make the best investment, not just what is emotionally gratifying. I believe that I may be able to have both in this case.
I don’t’ really expect to make money with a 993, as an investment. I know the value will not increase quicker than the maintenance/repairs pile up, at least for a while. So… I’m trying to “fade my losses” by purchasing a car that may actually go up in value, albeit slowly.
So far, we have been looking at a ’95/’98 C4C or a ’97/’98 C4S (Wide). The wide body simply excites both of us. If the AWD is prohibitively problematic or expensive, I have no problem with a RWD vehicle although AWD is our first choice. Both of these cars seem fairly rare and their prices seem to have stabilized somewhat. I’ve always found a RWD has always been fun, but I cannot ignore the safety issues, too.
The cabriolet doesn’t look as good to us as the wide body. I do wonder about missing something by not having a cabriolet. Online, I’ve read things like “Those who have a coupe often wish they had a convertible, but those with a convertible rarely wish they had a coupe” How accurate to you think this is?
I believe:
’95/’98 C4C total sold = 601
‘97/’98 C4S Total sold = 1,236.
Does anyone have any opinion as to which car has the most potential of an increased value in the future?
Please share your experiences and conclusions if you have the time.
Thank you,
LV933
I just joined and this is my first post. I think this is in the correct forum. If not, please correct me.
I’ve been lurking for a few weeks. I want to thank everyone for all of the great posts from the past. As a newbie, I find the archives here to be one of the best sources for researching specific issues and opinions. Thank you all for what you have created. I hope I can someday return the favor.
I come to you not only with a compliment but also with my hand out :-) I need some help from those of you who have some experience in two specific areas. First is C2 (RWD) vs. C4(AWD). Second is Cabriolet vs. Coup.
I (We) are getting a 993 as soon as we can find one and settle on a model. So far we know we are sure of is that we want a 993. I have been looking for a C4C. We’ve found one, but now my wife has a couple of “last minute” concerns. We have debated the cabriolet choice and then AWD vs. RWD. I do see her concerns and agree with most of them.
I have never had a full convertible or cabriolet. I had a FixItAgainTony X-19, which was a Targa type top and a Lotus Super-7(no top at all), which was only driven on the track. Many years ago, my wife had a brand new TR-6 convertible.
I lived in a cooler environment and went topless whenever it was not raining too hard. She lived I Southern Calif. She rarely took the top down. Between the glare, hot sun, stinky exhaust in traffic, and the A/C not working due to no roof. She just didn’t take the top down much at all.
Now we live in Las Vegas 85% of the time and in the pacific northwest the rest of the time. While the sunny weather and warm nights makes the cabriolet sound perfect, my wife brings up some very valid points. I can’t see myself sitting at a stop light, smelling fumes and sweating at 110 F.
The car will not be our daily driver. She feels safer in traffic in our 1-ton dually. If I go anywhere, I’ll take the 993, but that is not a daily occurrence. If I leave the property more than twice a week; it would be a very busy week. I may someday track it, but a hill climb or two is more likely. We can see participating in some rallies, taking it out on the LV strip and the obligatory “Sunday drive” through the beautiful desert or up in California’s Napa Valley.
Is it true that convertibles/cabriolets are rarely allowed to race(autocross) due to safety concerns? This is not a primary concern, but I do want to keep my options open.
Has anybody ever seen this hardtop for a 993? It does seem functional.
Porsche 911 / 964 / 993 Strosek style Hardtop - eBay auction#180127403529
Our other choice that is hanging us up is C2 vs. C4. We occasionally visit areas that rain and may have icy roads. Knowing that the AWD is more forgiving on a dry road, too is a big plus. My wife likes the idea of how well an AWD/4WD hugs the road. We have another vehicle that is very safe in the snow. It is a 4x4, well… in reality is a 6x6, but that is a debate for another day :-)
I also hate expensive options that break more often or easily than they should or take a gross amount of extra maintenance. How well built is the AWD transmission/system? How big of a cost differences for rebuild/replacement...Or is this not much of an issue? Its not that I can’t afford the repairs/maint, I simply want to be better informed as to my future expenses. I never mind scheduled maint. But I do hate surprise repairs.
I must say that the little accountant/actuary in me wants to make the best investment, not just what is emotionally gratifying. I believe that I may be able to have both in this case.
I don’t’ really expect to make money with a 993, as an investment. I know the value will not increase quicker than the maintenance/repairs pile up, at least for a while. So… I’m trying to “fade my losses” by purchasing a car that may actually go up in value, albeit slowly.
So far, we have been looking at a ’95/’98 C4C or a ’97/’98 C4S (Wide). The wide body simply excites both of us. If the AWD is prohibitively problematic or expensive, I have no problem with a RWD vehicle although AWD is our first choice. Both of these cars seem fairly rare and their prices seem to have stabilized somewhat. I’ve always found a RWD has always been fun, but I cannot ignore the safety issues, too.
The cabriolet doesn’t look as good to us as the wide body. I do wonder about missing something by not having a cabriolet. Online, I’ve read things like “Those who have a coupe often wish they had a convertible, but those with a convertible rarely wish they had a coupe” How accurate to you think this is?
I believe:
’95/’98 C4C total sold = 601
‘97/’98 C4S Total sold = 1,236.
Does anyone have any opinion as to which car has the most potential of an increased value in the future?
Please share your experiences and conclusions if you have the time.
Thank you,
LV933
06-09-2007, 04:52 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Welcome! You have some good/tough decisions to make.
Cabs are allowed at DE's (track), but you'll have to install a roll bar. Most people choose the DAS bar which requires a few holes. Our PCA region doesn't require roll bars for cabs but, obviously, recommends them.
If you're a purist, you'll want a C2. The AWD system is heavier and more complex, but reliability has been very good.
Given your two choices, I'd go with the '98 C4S. But as DC opined, the '98 C2S will have the least depreciation.
Good luck!
Cabs are allowed at DE's (track), but you'll have to install a roll bar. Most people choose the DAS bar which requires a few holes. Our PCA region doesn't require roll bars for cabs but, obviously, recommends them.
If you're a purist, you'll want a C2. The AWD system is heavier and more complex, but reliability has been very good.
Given your two choices, I'd go with the '98 C4S. But as DC opined, the '98 C2S will have the least depreciation.
Good luck!
Last edited by Mark in Baltimore; 06-09-2007 at 09:03 PM. Reason: spelling and clarity
06-09-2007, 05:11 PM
#5
Nordschleife Master
I think Mark summed it up well. The AWD weighs about 150 extra pounds, and makes the steering "not as precise and sharp" as a RWD. However, unless you are quite the expert, I'm not sure you could tell the difference. On the other hand, the AWD can provide some advantages in inclement weather, but also for a different driving style, and is generlly more forgiving. And, as Mark metioned, the AWD is nearly bulletproof.
I've owned two 993s for about 5 years... both turbos. I honestly still have some difficulty identifying a wide body from a narrow. The widebody "S" (C4S, C2S) cars command a healthy premium, which they seem to retain, but I don't think I'd turn down any 993.
And a coupe only for me... I love the lines of the coupe, and the Cab, though nice, doesn't do it for me. But that's just me.
Good luck on your search.
I've owned two 993s for about 5 years... both turbos. I honestly still have some difficulty identifying a wide body from a narrow. The widebody "S" (C4S, C2S) cars command a healthy premium, which they seem to retain, but I don't think I'd turn down any 993.
And a coupe only for me... I love the lines of the coupe, and the Cab, though nice, doesn't do it for me. But that's just me.
Good luck on your search.
06-09-2007, 05:14 PM
#6
If I was in Vegas tonight, I would want to drive a cab. When the top is up you'd be shielded from the sun during the day, but during those hot nights you have in Vegas, you'd need to have the top down cruising the strip. Now the widebody cars are fantastic. The extra inch or whatever it is on the rear along with the rockers make a huge difference.
Now, once you do get the car you will probably start heading down the slippery slope with the modifications. Even though cabs don't have the hips that the S cars do, once you get them lowered with the right wheels you will be surprised how wide they actually are.
Coupe or cab, I bet w/in 2 years of owning one you will contemplate and may even buy the other.
Now, once you do get the car you will probably start heading down the slippery slope with the modifications. Even though cabs don't have the hips that the S cars do, once you get them lowered with the right wheels you will be surprised how wide they actually are.
Coupe or cab, I bet w/in 2 years of owning one you will contemplate and may even buy the other.
06-09-2007, 05:27 PM
#7
Rennlist Member
Cabs:
Driving with the top down is a great experience! Great if you spend your winters in Vegas and summers in the NW. You can do autocross and DE with a roll bar as Mark pointed out. Drawbacks include poor visibility when the top is up, having to install a roll bar if you do DE.
Coupes:
More rigid frame which is better for track (though 993 cabs are some of the most rigid convertibles on the road). Most have sunroofs so you can still get some of the open air feel. Some argue it has nicer lines. Better suited for colder/rainy climate. If you spend your winters in the NW and the summers in Vegas, get a coupe.
C2: Feels lighter and has handling attributes unique to the 911. As Mark pointed out, the purist's 911. Get this if you're going to be driving primarily on dry, warm climate.
C4: Handles like it's on rails. Great for autocross. Get this if you plan to have a good share of seat time in the rain/cold weather.
I live in Vancouver and I'm replacing my cab with a C4S because I want to drive a 911 year-round and because I'm planning on doing more and more AX and DEs.
Good luck with the search. This is a great place to find a well kept car.
Driving with the top down is a great experience! Great if you spend your winters in Vegas and summers in the NW. You can do autocross and DE with a roll bar as Mark pointed out. Drawbacks include poor visibility when the top is up, having to install a roll bar if you do DE.
Coupes:
More rigid frame which is better for track (though 993 cabs are some of the most rigid convertibles on the road). Most have sunroofs so you can still get some of the open air feel. Some argue it has nicer lines. Better suited for colder/rainy climate. If you spend your winters in the NW and the summers in Vegas, get a coupe.
C2: Feels lighter and has handling attributes unique to the 911. As Mark pointed out, the purist's 911. Get this if you're going to be driving primarily on dry, warm climate.
C4: Handles like it's on rails. Great for autocross. Get this if you plan to have a good share of seat time in the rain/cold weather.
I live in Vancouver and I'm replacing my cab with a C4S because I want to drive a 911 year-round and because I'm planning on doing more and more AX and DEs.
Good luck with the search. This is a great place to find a well kept car.
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06-09-2007, 08:56 PM
#8
This is not easy. If you look at depreciation and track time is the way to go the 98 C2 S. On the other side, cruising with the top down especially when you have dry climate (like I have in Houston) is a great thing and this made me buying a C2 cabriolet. However, I am looking at the C2S market and you never know. If the Euro reaches 1.50 USD I might transfer money from Germany (I am German living in Houston for work) and a second 993 (2S, 4S, Turbo?) will be in my garage! Saying this, I do not want to miss my 993 cabriolet.
Erik
Erik
I have a Cab for summer fun and a C4 for for getting really high, elevation that is.