Berkley

I am still searching for signs of logic in your post, but I have yet to find any......but as you stated it was your **** perspective on pricing

Why not another approach, i.e., such as defining what you want? Folks are always happy to share market offerings that might be of interest to you and or share their buying and selling experiences

air eater

I second that!
Buy Scott's car. Great original car with the RoW M030 suspension in place.
What more could you ask for?
You won't find one in any better condition.

David in LA

If you run a linear regression you will find the R-square of mileage to prices to be relatively low. Prices are more of a function of qualitative features

jackb911

I guess I was luckier than most...I was goofing around on Auto Trader online for maybe ten minutes when I happened upon my current 993 - a low-mile, pristine, nicely optioned, one PCA owner car that lived only three miles from my home. It was priced very fairly, all things considered. After a clean PPI, I made an offer that was accepted and that 993 and I are now living happily ever after - it's my 20th, and probably last, Porsche.

These cars are very much an emotional purchase. Use equal amounts of "heart" and "head" and you should find what you are looking for. But if you overanalyze, you may miss out on a really good one!

Wilder

Sorry to point this out but not only are you overanalyzing, you are straying completely off from where you started. Things change and that's cool but I remember from your original thread HERE that you were looking for a $30 to $40k car that you could park on the street. Now you're looking at collector pieces???

Here's some advice: I just bought a car that has a great service history with 85k mi. The car is gorgeous and runs perfect (though it needs a tune up) but has a couple of dings and road rash in the front. I just got the car delivered on Friday and I racked up 500 mi on it already, some of which were on deserted, twisty roads doing very spirited driving. At one point, there was a car in front of me doing spirited driving that was kicking back quite a bit of debris. Did I care? Absolutely not! I was having the time of my life. If I was driving a 10, 20 or 30k mi car that I paid $68k for would I feel the same way? No, I'd probably be very worried about breaking something or getting a rock chip on my pristine paint.

Your needs may be different but if you haven't moved or built another garage and you're going to park this car outside as you had indicated before and you already have a new "nice" car, I'd stick with the original plan if I was you. I'd have a heart attack if I came out and my concours 20k mi C2S that I paid $60k for had bird $hit on it.

Wilder

Just so you know where I'm coming from:

Originally Posted by LJ in Van
If you clarify what you want a 993 for, we might be able to help better with less bias opinions.

Would the 993 become your DD or sit in the garage six days/week?
Do you want to track it or joy ride in it?
Will you need more power than what you've got now or can you live with less?
Is this a car you want to work on/mod or turn the key and drive?
Are you on a budget or are you happy to drop $70k on a 993? Would you be happy with a $30k car provided it doesn't need $10k worth of work?





Great questions.

1.) I think I would mix it up. I am semi retired, so I don't commute. I work out of my home, but do have meetings to go to from time to time. One of the two P's would have to sit on the street. Although we live in a nice area of the city, it's still on the street.
2.) No tracking in my plans. I just like driving a great handling/performing car.
3.) I don't plan to do any mods, but I'll bet a lot of guys start out thinking that. If I did do any mods they would be things I have read about that generally benefit the 993, but nothing big.
4.) I'm not on a budget, but I did just drop $85K on the 997.

I think your last question is the key. I would be happier with a $30k car that did not need a lot of work, was dependable and maybe even had a couple dings or warts that make it a $30k car. That way I am not trying to pamper a collector car, if that makes sense?

Garth S

AS,
Buyers anxiety can force many creative analysies to rationalize an otherwise illogical process: picking an arbitrary $40K/40K midpoint likely represents a meaningful average of the market; however, linear extrapolation from there to " off the curve" examples such as 10K mile cars is clearly throwing you the curve ......
On Sunday, the SO and I did a prerun of a PCA Rally course we have selected for an upcomming event .. windows down, top open, exhaust snarling on the 68Kmile C4S: a day later, you couldn't beat the grins off our faces with a stick: no spread sheet helped in arriving at this point.
If I didn't have a 4S already, I would take a long, hard look at the one mentioned above ...

AShearer

You're right, and thanks for directing me back to my original post, but some things have changed a little.
1.) I rented a private garage space about 2 blocks from my house. Not ideal, but problem solved.
2.) I've driven several 45>K mileage cars and been dissapointed at how rough they were. Now; clearly I have not found the "right owner". I have not seen a car with higher miles and lower price that I would be happy with. And, I have looked at a lot of them.

AShearer

Not using any books. You're right they are useless.

AShearer

That's the essential problem I'm trying to get to. Thanks for pointing it out.

AShearer

Thank all of you for your takes on this and good advice. I probably should have expanded on my original post.

First: I know this mainly an emotional purchase. That's why I'm trying to use some rational approach to balance out the emotion.

Second: I have found that prices for these cars even apples to apples identical cars are all over the map. I'm trying to find some basis for the prices. I'm frozen in my tracks trying to figure out what the right price / condition tradeoffs might be.

Third: The area I live in seems to be limited in used 993's, with the exception of a few specialists that are not too far away, eg. Tim Holt is about 100 miles from me. So, I am spending more time trying to assess cars on line. Difficult.

My basic idea was just to try to quantify cost of ownership with the notion that at some point, a collector car becomes just a used DD after you put XX miles on it.

AShearer

You're right. I have no idea what the end value would be. I'm talking several years from now assuming 5-7K per year.

Wilder

Are you in a hurry? If not, give it time and do a national search. You can find the right car. I know because I've found three right cars in the past 12 months. My cab has 53k mi and looks better than one sitting in a showroom locally with 16k mi. One of my C4Ss has 81k mi and looks/drives almost as well as my cab. The other C4S with 84k mi is rough on the outside but tight mechanically with many performance mods which is what I was looking for. Then again, if you've got an extra garage now and don't mind stepping up in price then go for a lower mile car. If it were me however, I'd try to get something different from what I've got and if you already have a new 997 which you may not feel like abusing, get a rougher car that you can toss around without a care.

ezinternet

Hey Ashearer, my sympathies :-)

Here are my thoughts, meandering and perhaps random ...

- Low mileage cars command a premium price owing to their rarity, not because of any intrinsic additional value as a 993. If you intend to make this a consumable driver's car rather than preserve the car's low mileage then the premium will quickly fade. IOW I wouldn't pay for low miles per se.

- There is no magic inflection point at which mechanical issues creep in and cost of ownership goes up. Clutches can be replaced at 20k miles or 80k miles. SAI can clog early or never. Don't mistake low miles for lower costs. I think low miles can mean less wear/tear on bolsters or carpets. Expect to have a list of mechanical things that your new 10 year old car needs, unless (see next item ...)

- The care of the prior owner(s) in maintaining and preserving the car determines a lot of what you find as the buyer of a used car, so I put knowing the PO or his/her service record as an important factor. I would hesitate to buy a car without a history, or discount it for the uncertainty. If I know the car had the belts replaced or the tranny flushed (regardless of miles) then I save real $$ on the purchase of a 10 year old car. Otherwise I'm going to be doing that.

- Budget plays into all this. There is a tendency to budget creep as you look at more and more cars, but in some rational part of your mind, the part that balances the net worth statement, there should be a price above which you wouldn't be converting cash to declining value 993 assets. Find it :-)

- Finally, there are some very good broker/dealers who do not have inventory but perform searches for you. Perhaps having someone else who helps you develop your criteria and then presents you with options might be useful? Fees are as low as $300 for a search. There are threads mentioning some good guys, or you can PM me for a name I've used and trust.

AShearer

Louis: Appreciate your reasoned comments. I'm not really in a hurry. I thought I could find a mid-miles car say 35- to 50 that was "nice", but every one I have seen has some serious drawback.

Just have to keep looking. I guess my thinking is that when you buy, any car, you're buying the use of it for X miles. That might be 20K, then you sell it, or as in the case of my wife's lexus 120K. But there are pecularities with the 993's that make them tougher to figure out and find. One is obviously rarity, the other is the amazing difference in condition that results from good maintenance and detailing, cleaning.

I've driven cars with 50K miles that stink inside, carpet matted, crushed, pulled up, seats ragged out, leaks, squeaks and you name it. Assuming mechanicals are what they are and fixable, that's not what I want.