Steve 96C4S

I brought my 96 C4S over to a Rennlister's a few weeks ago to help me with a rattling MY02 shifter and he mentioned that I have some rust forming at a spot at the windshield. I decided to bring it in to my body shop and they pulled the windshield out last week and said the rust was extensive. Gulp... They said it was the entire way across the bottom of where the windshield was. They said it was going to be about $1000 to fix it plus $500 for each of the front wheel wells where rocks flung into them over the last 11 years, wearing off the paint and pitting it to the point that it will start rusting. It also needed repainting on the front bumper where I pulled up too close to parking blocks and was all scratched up. All in all I'm guessing it will be an unexpected $3k or so.

Do most of our 11 year old cars rust by the front windshield or is it more like 20% and I just got unlucky? I was told it may be from a previous windshield replacement where they score the paint and don't fix it before they reinstall the windshield. I'd like to get hold of the idiot that did this to begin with!

I got the usual bit from my wife "$3000? You don't NEED that extra car. It's costing too much. We can't afford it anymore. AND, you need a new suspension too?"

Ugghhh... now I have to put off the new suspension till next year. Oh well. It floats like a butterfly and stings like a bee. A little floating down the road isn't that bad, right? A fellow Rennlister drove my car and said it's a little floaty, but I can live with it for another year without new shocks if I have to.

Anyway, the rust I have could always be worse...like on this older 911



Steve R

autobonrun

When I was shopping for my 993, I ran across at least two where the windshield rust issue had occurred early in the life of the car and had been repaired by Porsche under warranty. If so, I'm not so sure this is an issue associated with time as much as a manufacturing or assembly issue. My understanding is that it is not uncommon, but most were repaired early on.

Steve 96C4S

Thanks for that quick reply. The auto body place told me that it wasn't a Porsche defect, but an incorrect windshield replacement issue issue. They said that when the windshield was previously replace, they installer probably cut into the paint with his tool/knife and the cutting into the paint wasn't properly fixed, so when the windshield goes back in, that cut part starts to eventually rust.

Or, maybe that explanation is totally wrong as to why rust forms there? Do most 1996 cars of other manufacturers develop rust in areas like this or is it mostly just a problem with 993's?

Steve R

Mike J

Here is what I think:

If you look at the seals there is an opportunity for water to be held under the seal and pool a bit at the lower corners of the windshield. There are no drains built in ; I guess Porsche thought the water is expected to either not get under the seal (unrealistic) or somehow weep out. I suspect the rust is from a long time of water sitting on the paint, at times depositing crap, and sometimes being more corrosive (like winter salt, or windshield washer fluid) than other times. We are talking about 10+ years of wear here. The galvanization will only protect so much, if the paint is penetrated you will still get rust if you wait long enough.

These cars are made of steel and will, if driven, will eventually rust. It make take 5 years or 50 ; there are lots of variables.

If the paint has been scratched that will certainly accelerate the process...

I think part of annual maintenance of these cars is to remove as much trim as possible, wash and check the paint underneath. I often take a peek under the seals to make sure its OK. I also dry out underneath the seals when I wash the car using my leaf lower or compressed air...its amazing how much water is trapped there (like the trim pieces by the quarter windows....lots of water!).

From a cost perspective I feel for you and I too have spent way too much money (and time) on this car...and the bang-for-the-buck at times is marginal. Some people are lucky and drive their 993's for years with no troubles ; no such luck for me and I have had troubles since the day I bought it. I have not learned a whole lot about this car by reading ; its from fixing it! Its a constant debate what to do next. I do keep a seperate "p-car fund" that is not tracked by the significant other, its just easier that way. If the true costs came out it would be very painfull indeed!

Just my two cents though..

Cheers,

Mike

Butzi

Steve, I feel for you, man. We all take risks purchasing 10-year old cars hoping we won't have to face anything major, but it happens. I have the same conversations with my wife (especially after I got a $9000 bid for a top-end rebuild+goodies; didn't do it, yet). I can't speak for you financially, but sometimes, no matter how much money you make, you must weigh the cost-reward. I always calculate, in my head, how much I could make by investing in an ETF, or my "stock of the week" versus buying new speakers & headunit, or an extra set of wheels (a personal "internal rate of return"). Obviously, more $$$ in the pocket is nice, but it doesn't come with Varioram.

That said: you can't ignore rust, it is a cancer that attacks our cars. It's a must do fix, I'll assume. However, you can't put-off fixing your suspension. Swapping out the shocks/struts isn't limited to being defined as an "upgrade" but a necessary safety precaution. I wouldn't want my wife driving around in our Lexus if a similar "floating" affected it. I will bet that if you look hard enough, you can pick up a set of slightly used Bilstein HDs (I've seen them) AND get a local Rennlister to help you swap them in; then get a nice alignment/corner balance. You should be able to enjoy your beauty in safety (as well as rust-free) and save a few dineros by DIY-ing it!!!

Sorry, no answer for rust, if I had one, I'd be a billionaire. Good luck!

JM993

I make it a habit to lift each corner of the front and rear windshield seals after the car gets wet. This will allow most of the water to drain away.

PS - Most any car with a bonded windshield is susceptible to this problem. For example, my 325is has an old style windshield seal (less aerodynamic) which does not allow water in. My old E30 M3 had a bonded windshield (more aerodynamic) which let the water in. You never hear of rust in this area on old 325is', but it's common on M3s.

V

I feel for you Steve. Sometimes, unfortunate things happen to our precious cars. But the fact is: I have bought a Porsche, and everything that comes with owning it. High maintenance costs is one of those things, superior driving experiances is another. I had some touching up done recently. I have the same issue with rust at the bottom of the windshield (where the wipers attach). My dealer told me it was semi-bad but not a crucial fix. He explained that he had to take off the windshield to do it properly. I did the other touchups (tiny parts of rust in back of wheelwells) but decided to put of the windshield part for a while. My windshield looks brand new although my car has 90.000miles on it so I guess it was replaced. That could be the cause of the rusting, don't know. You probably should have it fixed right away, it might be even more expensive to put it off to later. Good luck.

Garth S

Steve,
If the gasket is removed, can all the rust be accessed? If so, I would be very tempted to mask off the area and clean away the rust with whatever small tools are necessary ( like wet sandpaper wrapped/glued to a sucker stick - not high tech, but workable). Using an artists style brush, get in and cover up with a good (zinc base) primer, or whatever your paint expert recommends, etc .... and reinstall the windshield gasket.
Then you have a clear conscience to go and buy those Bilsteins ...

fast_freddy

Had it on mine. Common problem with 993's. The PO had it fixed under warranty in one corner. Had the other three lower corners done last fall. It wasn't bad, it was just some preventative maintenance for the most part

AOW162435

After washing my 993, or after driving it in the rain, I insert a sharpened wooden stirrer or popsicle stick under the rubber gasket in each lower corner (front and rear glass). The water flows out. I leave it like this overnight or longer.

In my 4Runner, the gasket for the rear side glass has small openings at either end - specifically for this purpose.

Steve,
Were you able to get any pics of the damage to the windshield frame?

Andreas

ASH.PALIN

There is a bit of a water ingress problem at the front that sometimes manifests itself as a delaminating of the windshield, ie a 'ghosting' of the windshield in this area.
I use a compressor and airtools to do the odd bit of maintenance and it can be used to great effect with a narrow nozzled blowgun around the rear and front screen watertraps by just gently easing up the seal and giving it a right old blast, it seems to work well.

Steve 96C4S

Thanks alot guys. I can't take pics as it's at the shop in Gaithersburg and they're now doing the work. As far as lifting parts of the trim up with popsicle sticks every time it rains or I wet it, I'm not willing to go to that crazy extent! I figure if I have to go that far to keep my car up, it's just not worth it. Call me lazy, I am. I feel that an owner just shouldn't have to go through all that, you know? It's an **** retentive style of ownership that I won't take part in to maintain my 993, so I guess I'll have to substitute prayer instead .

As for the suspension, I think I might have to go into savings to pay for that... savings that we're not supposed to go into, but... I don't plan on living forever, right? I'd hate to be the guy that scrimped and saved every penny, lived really frugally for so long, just to be wiped out by an early life cancer and never had the opportunity to enjoy the fruits of my labor. Live for today is my new motto. I look at the obituaries every day and it seems that more famous men are dying of cancer or stoke around 75, so there may be no reason at all to save up SO much money to assure I still have some when I'm 93. If I only live to the norm death age of around 75 for men, then I could spend alot more of our retirement savings RIGHT NOW! Whoo hoo - maybe I should go out and finance a 97 993 TT-S .

Just kidding.

Steve R

ASH.PALIN

Steve.........like you, I hate nancing around with my car with cotton wool buds etc, I can never find the time or the inclination!! But the compressor is the ultimate lazy *** tool for loads of those annoying little jobs that I hate doing like cleaning the inside of the car etc, however, I do wish had a bit more dedication, these older cars are worth the effort.......they dont make em like they used to!!

911ron

I have this problem on my 95. I have two very small paint blisters near my windshield seal.

This reminds me of an old VW I had, which had a seal very similar to older 911s. It had two drainage holes drilled into the bottom of the window frame. Of course this meant that it would drain right into the cabin! I asked a VW dealer about this. He said that the seal was very tight and you would never notice any water dripping from these holes. It was mostly to get rid of any moisture that built up between the gasket and the window frame. It must have worked, because it never rusted there. It was about the only place on the car that didn't rust!!!

Anyone who knows more about this than I have any thoughts about doing this "mod" to a 993?

Caveman

It's getting to be quite a common problem over here; I had it on mine though luckily I noticed it very early on and the body shop said the rust was minimal. However, they did say that some of the cars they saw had to have bits cut out and replaced where people had left them so you are doing the right thing getting it seen to now. What seems as common is getting a bubble next to the side of the rear window. If it makes you feel better I've had to have the very bottom on the rear edge of my front wings painted twice due to stone chipping of them.

Cheers,

David