Finally have my Recaro Sport Toplines...a year later (now with install links)
05-11-2007, 02:59 PM
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Finally have my Recaro Sport Toplines...a year later (now with install links)
A long saga is finally complete. Short version:
I finally received and installed my custom Recaro Sport Topline cashmere leather seats from the group buy I organized LAST JUNE. FVD (www.FVD.us) is a great shop. Recaro North America seem like a bunch of buffoons (seems like Recaro Germany is better, but for some reason I can’t remember, they couldn’t or wouldn’t do the install). 400 emails (literally) and one year later, I have seats, belts, and HANS ready to go.
Long version for those interested (install pics on a separate post) Here ; I’m sure I have some of the order wrong as it has been over the last year, but here’s my saga:
I had agonized over seats for quite some time. The constraints on purchasing new seats were many for me:
• I live in Manhattan and my garage is not very near my apartment. So the idea of having 2 sets of seats and switching them didn’t seem very palatable.
• I wanted to keep the street/track mix and retain the use of my back seats
• I had 8 way adjustable power seats with heaters, and frankly didn’t want to give up much of that either, as I’m in a cab and unless it is raining or below about 45, I have the top down. Toasty buns are rather nice.
• My interior is cashmere beige leather, with 2 tone black accents on dash & doors, and no offense to anyone mixing and matching but black seats weren’t for me.
So, after much searching (Ray Calvo would be proud), I stumbled across George’s cashmere beige Recaro Sport Toplines…the only set in existence, apparently. They weren’t cheap, and George shared that he got a bit of a deal as part of a group buy through a Florida shop, FVD.
I saw many emails of people wanting seats, so I organized a rather extensive group buy, ending up with 21 seats (I don’t recall if that included mine or not), through FVD North America, the same vendor George used. I spoke with Rhonda (very nice & helpful), who remembered George. She said she could extend me the same deal with a group buy…I thought I was golden. More money than I wanted to spend, but my stock seats were getting old anyway. George had warned me it took awhile. (Insert foreboding music here).
Then things started to cascade all to hell. First, Recaro had raised the price of the custom work. To FVD’s credit, after much discussion (and the fact that I was purchasing 2 Schroth harnesses and a HANS device helped), they honored their original quote. Then there was some discussion if Recaro North America (RNA) would even do it at all. Then there were some problems sourcing the Porsche leather.
Finally, several months after it all started, I received the first seat of a set of Recaro Sport Toplines in cashmere beige. The finish was nice, all was good…except…there was a flaw in the leather right down the thigh bolster.
Apparently almost all hides have a similar flaw, but they typically bury them in a seam or something so they are not noticeable. However, RNA put it in plain sight. Additionally, they only sent one seat. I called FVD, who called Recaro. They had made the second seat, and therefore had no leather left to redo the thigh bolster. I told them to start over. A few days later, the seat they weren’t supposed to send shows up, with a similar flaw! They apparently can’t get different hides for fear of not matching, so for 2 weeks I have 2 car seats in my Manhattan one bedroom apartment while they are figuring out what to do. Apparently the GM of RNA fired someone over the seats leaving the factory that way, but I’m not sure I believe that after the rest of everything that happened.
If I recall correctly RNA tried to back out at that point, but I pointed out that I had done the group buy, that they committed to seats, that they screwed up, and I wouldn’t accept their resignation. FVD stepped up with a connection in Germany to get another couple of hides, but the color/texture was slightly different…I agonized for awhile before finally deciding to go for it (turned out fine).
So now I wait again for the second set of seats. They show up at my door, but as soon as I open the first box, I don’t even have to unpack it (see pics below), due to the seam quality: ridges and ripples everywhere. I tell them this is unacceptable, and they pick them back up.
(Cont'd below)
I finally received and installed my custom Recaro Sport Topline cashmere leather seats from the group buy I organized LAST JUNE. FVD (www.FVD.us) is a great shop. Recaro North America seem like a bunch of buffoons (seems like Recaro Germany is better, but for some reason I can’t remember, they couldn’t or wouldn’t do the install). 400 emails (literally) and one year later, I have seats, belts, and HANS ready to go.
Long version for those interested (install pics on a separate post) Here ; I’m sure I have some of the order wrong as it has been over the last year, but here’s my saga:
I had agonized over seats for quite some time. The constraints on purchasing new seats were many for me:
• I live in Manhattan and my garage is not very near my apartment. So the idea of having 2 sets of seats and switching them didn’t seem very palatable.
• I wanted to keep the street/track mix and retain the use of my back seats
• I had 8 way adjustable power seats with heaters, and frankly didn’t want to give up much of that either, as I’m in a cab and unless it is raining or below about 45, I have the top down. Toasty buns are rather nice.
• My interior is cashmere beige leather, with 2 tone black accents on dash & doors, and no offense to anyone mixing and matching but black seats weren’t for me.
So, after much searching (Ray Calvo would be proud), I stumbled across George’s cashmere beige Recaro Sport Toplines…the only set in existence, apparently. They weren’t cheap, and George shared that he got a bit of a deal as part of a group buy through a Florida shop, FVD.
I saw many emails of people wanting seats, so I organized a rather extensive group buy, ending up with 21 seats (I don’t recall if that included mine or not), through FVD North America, the same vendor George used. I spoke with Rhonda (very nice & helpful), who remembered George. She said she could extend me the same deal with a group buy…I thought I was golden. More money than I wanted to spend, but my stock seats were getting old anyway. George had warned me it took awhile. (Insert foreboding music here).
Then things started to cascade all to hell. First, Recaro had raised the price of the custom work. To FVD’s credit, after much discussion (and the fact that I was purchasing 2 Schroth harnesses and a HANS device helped), they honored their original quote. Then there was some discussion if Recaro North America (RNA) would even do it at all. Then there were some problems sourcing the Porsche leather.
Finally, several months after it all started, I received the first seat of a set of Recaro Sport Toplines in cashmere beige. The finish was nice, all was good…except…there was a flaw in the leather right down the thigh bolster.
Apparently almost all hides have a similar flaw, but they typically bury them in a seam or something so they are not noticeable. However, RNA put it in plain sight. Additionally, they only sent one seat. I called FVD, who called Recaro. They had made the second seat, and therefore had no leather left to redo the thigh bolster. I told them to start over. A few days later, the seat they weren’t supposed to send shows up, with a similar flaw! They apparently can’t get different hides for fear of not matching, so for 2 weeks I have 2 car seats in my Manhattan one bedroom apartment while they are figuring out what to do. Apparently the GM of RNA fired someone over the seats leaving the factory that way, but I’m not sure I believe that after the rest of everything that happened.
If I recall correctly RNA tried to back out at that point, but I pointed out that I had done the group buy, that they committed to seats, that they screwed up, and I wouldn’t accept their resignation. FVD stepped up with a connection in Germany to get another couple of hides, but the color/texture was slightly different…I agonized for awhile before finally deciding to go for it (turned out fine).
So now I wait again for the second set of seats. They show up at my door, but as soon as I open the first box, I don’t even have to unpack it (see pics below), due to the seam quality: ridges and ripples everywhere. I tell them this is unacceptable, and they pick them back up.
(Cont'd below)
Last edited by JPS; 05-13-2007 at 01:24 AM.
05-11-2007, 03:11 PM
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Then we begin months of banter back & forth. They redid them, then said they wanted to send me pics to see if they met my approval and that they were unsure if they would. I told them to not even bother…if they weren’t sure, why would they even be sending them out? I explained again I didn’t want anything special in terms of quality…I just wanted the same fit & finish from their standard seats, just in cashmere instead of black. Doesn’t seem like it should be rocket science.
They (RNA) continued lame excuses of different leather than they were used to, yada yada yada. I even made them look into 3rd party upholsterers to do their job for them. After a couple of months of this, they finally say they can send them to their prototype department. HELLO!!?? Why hadn’t that come up before?
Finally they send some new pics…they look good but I tell them I reserved the right to refuse on delivery, and we both agree that this will be it…they will either get it right or I will get a refund and give up on RNA. Again, it bears repeating that FVD has stayed with me on this entire process. Along the way somewhere Rhonda handed me off to their VP Ops, who had contacts at RNA or we likely would not have made it this far. I won’t name him in case he doesn’t want to be pelted with emails going directly to “the man”, but he takes customer service VERY seriously, was great about setting my expectations, educating me on leather and such, and he demonstrated great lengths of patience during this whole process. I would have had to abandon ship without him.
So I finally get the seats, but one is damaged in shipping! AAAHH! Fortunately it is a plastic piece (never mind wondering why there is plastic) and FVD works with Recaro to find a local authorized repair center about 30 miles away. So I schlep it up there and they fix it. So probably 10 months or so since I ordered them initially, I have a set of seats.
Now I started the install & belt saga. Oh, first I find out that the HANS device sent to me several months earlier was actually the wrong one, but HANS helps us both out and I exchange directly at the factory.
For the install, originally one of FVD’s techs told me I could cut out a spot in the seat base (see below) for a sub belt to go through. This is why I ended up deciding to spend the extra money on the Sport Toplines in the first place. He implied either a 5 or 6 pt harness could be used. Since I had no seats to look at, I just had to trust and wait until the seats got here.
Well, as you can see (sort of) from the pics, there are 2 plastic tabs holding the seat covering in place…I didn’t want to cut through those and didn’t want the belts to push on them, so I thought I’d go to a 5 pt harness and run it right between them. However, Schroth had the new 2” HANS harness, and I thought it came in a 5 pt, so I thought I was home free.
(Cont'd below)
They (RNA) continued lame excuses of different leather than they were used to, yada yada yada. I even made them look into 3rd party upholsterers to do their job for them. After a couple of months of this, they finally say they can send them to their prototype department. HELLO!!?? Why hadn’t that come up before?
Finally they send some new pics…they look good but I tell them I reserved the right to refuse on delivery, and we both agree that this will be it…they will either get it right or I will get a refund and give up on RNA. Again, it bears repeating that FVD has stayed with me on this entire process. Along the way somewhere Rhonda handed me off to their VP Ops, who had contacts at RNA or we likely would not have made it this far. I won’t name him in case he doesn’t want to be pelted with emails going directly to “the man”, but he takes customer service VERY seriously, was great about setting my expectations, educating me on leather and such, and he demonstrated great lengths of patience during this whole process. I would have had to abandon ship without him.
So I finally get the seats, but one is damaged in shipping! AAAHH! Fortunately it is a plastic piece (never mind wondering why there is plastic) and FVD works with Recaro to find a local authorized repair center about 30 miles away. So I schlep it up there and they fix it. So probably 10 months or so since I ordered them initially, I have a set of seats.
Now I started the install & belt saga. Oh, first I find out that the HANS device sent to me several months earlier was actually the wrong one, but HANS helps us both out and I exchange directly at the factory.
For the install, originally one of FVD’s techs told me I could cut out a spot in the seat base (see below) for a sub belt to go through. This is why I ended up deciding to spend the extra money on the Sport Toplines in the first place. He implied either a 5 or 6 pt harness could be used. Since I had no seats to look at, I just had to trust and wait until the seats got here.
Well, as you can see (sort of) from the pics, there are 2 plastic tabs holding the seat covering in place…I didn’t want to cut through those and didn’t want the belts to push on them, so I thought I’d go to a 5 pt harness and run it right between them. However, Schroth had the new 2” HANS harness, and I thought it came in a 5 pt, so I thought I was home free.
(Cont'd below)
Last edited by JPS; 05-11-2007 at 05:16 PM.
05-11-2007, 03:17 PM
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Turns out there was some problem in testing with the 2” shoulder harness and the camlock not unlocking in a rollover on a 5 pt. Again kudos to FVD for tracking all this down with Schroth. So Schroth didn’t want to make them but said they would if I signed a waiver. Woah…no way I wanted to waive anything…if the factory said they didn’t like the combo, no way I needed that. But now I’m back to figuring out a 6 point harness install. 
But at least now I had the seats, and could really dig into them. But now the FVD tech I spoke with before was no longer there! Another great tech helped me out, but we were clearly figuring it out on the fly. With my new trusty Dremel (dayam…that thing is cool), I made a bigger sub belt hole so now it was wide enough for 2 belts, and deep enough to allow the harness through (but still not a camlock). I ziplocked the leather in place to replace the tabs I obliterated, and all looked good.
I researched mounting points extensively (thanks to Rennlist folks for helping me out), and finally decided if I’m in this, I’m in this. I used to skydive competitively and I’ve learned that good safety gear is important. So I gave up trying to come up with a kludge and I decide I would drill the floor plan.
But then another problem arose…turns out the Schroth harness puts all the camlocks on the sub belt on a 6 pt, and there was no way that camlock was getting through the seat sub strap hole. Since I want to keep the car very streetable, I needed to be able to stash the sub belt. After many emails and phone calls and FVD again helping me and hunting down from Schroth in Germany, they told me how I can take the camlock off easily so that I can hide the sub belt when on the street. Whew!
I think things are good again, but for the install I had to figure out how to move the DME (turned out to be very easy), and how to move the stereo amplifier; keep in mind I still wanted street capabilities, so didn’t want to just stick them behind the seat or something. These all fit well until I realized I was using the spacer bars that come with the slider kit, and when I finally sat down I realized I had almost no headroom. I spoke to ViperBob (and did a search) and discovered I didn’t need the spacers. That was too bad because I ordered additional seat pieces from Porsche to ensure I had 3 bolts on each spacer bar (six per seat) to hold it into place, plus ordered more bolts, etc. etc. More time. Now it turns out I didn’t even need the damn spacers. Yak.
New problem…with no spacer the amplifier didn’t fit where I was originally going to put it. I didn’t want to pay to relocate it, didn’t want to replace it yet, and didn’t want it sticking out the back somewhere. Long story short I turned it upside down and sideways and zip tied it down. The seat clears, the belts clear, the amp works…success.
So now FINALLY, after 1 year, 400 emails, countless phone calls, specialized bolts (complicated by the fact that the bolt kit with the sliders was clearly not the right kit for the application, with very short bolts), putting seats in and out for constant “fittings”, everything is in and working well (see below).
Again, I want to thank FVD. Sure there were times when I wish they called Germany faster or worked with Recaro with more of a big stick instead of a talk softly, but at the end of the day they stuck with me and always acted with high customer service and integrity. Most any other company would have cut their losses and abandoned me to chase my own windmills, but they take customer service very seriously and EVERY person I spoke to (and I spoke to literally half the company over the course of this) took it as their duty to help me however possible. I have no affiliation, but if you need stuff, call FVD.
So, would I do it all again? Well, I give the seats an 8.5 out of 10 (10 being flawless baby butt smooth), as I have noticed a couple of imperfections, but hey, I have them. I’m not sure I would have done this had I known what a PITA it would be, but now that I’ve done it, it really isn’t that hard if I were to do it again. Most of my agony was figuring the **** out. If you want to PM me I can chat more about the install: Pivot DME, move amp, dremel through pan, drill floor pan for eyebolts, dremel through seat for sub passthrough…voila.
All that being said...I love them.
I can't wait to get on the track. 
Net net: FVD: Great. I can’t say enough about how happy I am they stuck with me through this saga. Recaro North America: forget about it. Seats: beautiful IMHO & functional. Belts can really get snug. But how the seats left the factory TWICE in the state they did is embarrassing if I’m them.
See this link for final pics and some install pics too.
But at least now I had the seats, and could really dig into them. But now the FVD tech I spoke with before was no longer there! Another great tech helped me out, but we were clearly figuring it out on the fly. With my new trusty Dremel (dayam…that thing is cool), I made a bigger sub belt hole so now it was wide enough for 2 belts, and deep enough to allow the harness through (but still not a camlock). I ziplocked the leather in place to replace the tabs I obliterated, and all looked good.
I researched mounting points extensively (thanks to Rennlist folks for helping me out), and finally decided if I’m in this, I’m in this. I used to skydive competitively and I’ve learned that good safety gear is important. So I gave up trying to come up with a kludge and I decide I would drill the floor plan.
But then another problem arose…turns out the Schroth harness puts all the camlocks on the sub belt on a 6 pt, and there was no way that camlock was getting through the seat sub strap hole. Since I want to keep the car very streetable, I needed to be able to stash the sub belt. After many emails and phone calls and FVD again helping me and hunting down from Schroth in Germany, they told me how I can take the camlock off easily so that I can hide the sub belt when on the street. Whew!
I think things are good again, but for the install I had to figure out how to move the DME (turned out to be very easy), and how to move the stereo amplifier; keep in mind I still wanted street capabilities, so didn’t want to just stick them behind the seat or something. These all fit well until I realized I was using the spacer bars that come with the slider kit, and when I finally sat down I realized I had almost no headroom. I spoke to ViperBob (and did a search) and discovered I didn’t need the spacers. That was too bad because I ordered additional seat pieces from Porsche to ensure I had 3 bolts on each spacer bar (six per seat) to hold it into place, plus ordered more bolts, etc. etc. More time. Now it turns out I didn’t even need the damn spacers. Yak.
New problem…with no spacer the amplifier didn’t fit where I was originally going to put it. I didn’t want to pay to relocate it, didn’t want to replace it yet, and didn’t want it sticking out the back somewhere. Long story short I turned it upside down and sideways and zip tied it down. The seat clears, the belts clear, the amp works…success.
So now FINALLY, after 1 year, 400 emails, countless phone calls, specialized bolts (complicated by the fact that the bolt kit with the sliders was clearly not the right kit for the application, with very short bolts), putting seats in and out for constant “fittings”, everything is in and working well (see below).
Again, I want to thank FVD. Sure there were times when I wish they called Germany faster or worked with Recaro with more of a big stick instead of a talk softly, but at the end of the day they stuck with me and always acted with high customer service and integrity. Most any other company would have cut their losses and abandoned me to chase my own windmills, but they take customer service very seriously and EVERY person I spoke to (and I spoke to literally half the company over the course of this) took it as their duty to help me however possible. I have no affiliation, but if you need stuff, call FVD.
So, would I do it all again? Well, I give the seats an 8.5 out of 10 (10 being flawless baby butt smooth), as I have noticed a couple of imperfections, but hey, I have them. I’m not sure I would have done this had I known what a PITA it would be, but now that I’ve done it, it really isn’t that hard if I were to do it again. Most of my agony was figuring the **** out. If you want to PM me I can chat more about the install: Pivot DME, move amp, dremel through pan, drill floor pan for eyebolts, dremel through seat for sub passthrough…voila.
All that being said...I love them.
I can't wait to get on the track. Net net: FVD: Great. I can’t say enough about how happy I am they stuck with me through this saga. Recaro North America: forget about it. Seats: beautiful IMHO & functional. Belts can really get snug. But how the seats left the factory TWICE in the state they did is embarrassing if I’m them.
See this link for final pics and some install pics too.
Last edited by JPS; 05-13-2007 at 12:23 AM.
05-11-2007, 03:40 PM
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I really, really want a set of those. So much money, but just so right for the car. Anyone doing a group buy?
Edit - just kidding about the group buy. It was tongue in cheek after reading JPS' post above. Beautiful seats, though!
Edit - just kidding about the group buy. It was tongue in cheek after reading JPS' post above. Beautiful seats, though!
Last edited by cowtown; 05-13-2007 at 12:28 PM.
05-11-2007, 03:49 PM
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To be honest, I doubt Recaro would go through it again, though I can't speak for them. I'm not sure if you still can, but you used to be able to get a non-upolstered version, then you could have someone cover them. Alternatively, get the fabric ones and have them redone in leather. Or try Recaro...I just bet they run screaming...
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05-12-2007, 08:35 AM
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I remeber the post with the head rest stiching. Kudos to you JPS for going through this whole process. Looking back now you can sit comfortable in your new seats 
. They look great btw! Congrats
. They look great btw! Congrats
05-12-2007, 09:21 AM
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Great looking seats, but what a story and hassle to get them!
I too remember seeing the wrinkled seam images. Thank you for the follow-up and the overall great write-up.
I too remember seeing the wrinkled seam images. Thank you for the follow-up and the overall great write-up.
05-12-2007, 11:56 AM
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Thanks so much guys...I'm really psyched to have them in. They are a compromise in that they don't have the lateral support of a fixed seat, but they keep the car totally streetable and look almost stock when I don't have the belts showing...exactly what I was looking for. TOTAL PITA to get it all sorted, but frankly most of it was just that I was doing this combo for the first time...sport topline, 6 pts, 993, hide the belts. Now that there is a roadmap, it really isn't bad at all. If I had the immobilizer there would have been more moving of electronics to do. I'm working on the "here's how I mounted them" post now.
I do have to remount the fire extinguisher and get the Ultralap hooked back in, but other than that I'm good to go. At the end of the season / beginning of next I want to get 18" wheels and lower it down a bit more, so I'm starting my quest for which wheels now, just in case they take awhile to find.
I do have to remount the fire extinguisher and get the Ultralap hooked back in, but other than that I'm good to go. At the end of the season / beginning of next I want to get 18" wheels and lower it down a bit more, so I'm starting my quest for which wheels now, just in case they take awhile to find.
05-14-2007, 07:21 PM
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Thanks for the comments.
Oh, meant to say thanks to everyone who provided proof it could be done (George), install assistance, opinions that I wasn't smoking crack and the seams really were that bad at first, etc., etc.,
Thanks Rennlist for helping me out.
Damn you Rennlist! Damn you all to hell (on knees in sand with a bone stock 993 behind me) for getting me on this slope in the first place!
Oh, meant to say thanks to everyone who provided proof it could be done (George), install assistance, opinions that I wasn't smoking crack and the seams really were that bad at first, etc., etc.,
Thanks Rennlist for helping me out.
Damn you Rennlist! Damn you all to hell (on knees in sand with a bone stock 993 behind me) for getting me on this slope in the first place!