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OMG!!! Nice C2S for $29k - SOLD

 
Old 03-30-2007, 11:19 AM
  #46  
DC from Cape Cod
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The buyer of a car with 89K and the buyer of a pristine low mileage car are not the same person and are not going to be looking at the same cars when they consider making a purchase.

When I looked, I only looked at 1998 C2S with under 20K in Artic Silver with factory aerokit. This is the ONLY car what I wanted. Any other car was not even on my radar, no matter what the cost.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:24 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Terry Adams
Well said, as there is a bell curve to most populations.
Yep.

The value of a specific commodity is established at the point where the buyer and seller agree on a price.

The value on a specific type of commodity is based on a statistically significant number of sales for like-kind examples of the commodity.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:37 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by DC from Cape Cod
The value of a specific commodity is established at the point where the buyer and seller agree on a price.

The value on a specific type of commodity is based on a statistically significant number of sales for like-kind examples of the commodity.
But in this case, you have the middle of the bell curve fantasizing about being on the high end. The high profile dealers and extraordinary asking prices of the small number of low mile cars influences the whole market.

Take a look at cars.com listings. It's hysterical. Lots of lower-middle class cars that are priced in the big leagues because everyone's seen the RPM or similar S cars for $50-60k. Then you have a less than knowledgable buyer who sees all these overpriced cars and maybe he starts thinking that's what he should pay.

Fact is, used 993s are not a perfect market. Deception and bad information dominate. Sellers are often in no rush to sell. Buyers are often driven more by lust than reason.

A commodity? Maybe a commodities market where every lot is unique and participants are allowed to misrepresent themselves and their products in any transaction. And where the posted prices are made from whole cloth and no one knows what the real transaction prices are.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:40 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by RallyJon
But in this case, you have the middle of the bell curve fantasizing about being on the high end. The high profile dealers and extraordinary asking prices of the small number of low mile cars influences the whole market.
There is a bell curve for the cars, a bell curve for the buyers, and a bell curve for the sellers, including dealers. That is why pricing is all over the place.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:42 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by DC from Cape Cod
The buyer of a car with 89K and the buyer of a pristine low mileage car are not the same person and are not going to be looking at the same cars when they consider making a purchase.

When I looked, I only looked at 1998 C2S with under 20K in Artic Silver with factory aerokit. This is the ONLY car what I wanted. Any other car was not even on my radar, no matter what the cost.
You're right, there are garage queen buyers and there are daily driver buyers and there are cars for both. Some people will entertain both. Others won't. So what? My only point in starting this thread is that a C2S in good condition was for sale and subsequently sold for $29k. I've never seen one priced like this. ledd4u got what appears to be an incredible deal. Many...most here agree. Ta da.

ledd4u: KBB does rock
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:43 AM
  #51  
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Mileage is super important. There are definite price points in the market for these cars ... 5k miles, 10k miles, 20k miles, 30k miles (big one), 50k miles (another big one), 60k miles, 100k miles (huge one) ...

I remember a story where April Miller (one of the many high-end dealers from Springfield MO -- along with TEAM, Willhoit, Premier, etc.), had picked up a Ferrari (or something) with like 4,982 miles on it, and specifically sent a driver with a trailer down to get it so it wouldn't turn over 5,000. He decided to take it for a quick little spin before he trailered it up ... and delivered it with 5,004 miles on it. Apparently it was quite a s---storm when he dropped it off ;-)
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:46 AM
  #52  
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Silver was a undesireable color for me when I bought either of my cars since they are everywhere. Black wasnt my first choice either but the car had everything else I wanted. A white 911 is a beautiful car no matter what model.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:50 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by jimq
Silver was a undesireable color for me when I bought either of my cars since they are everywhere. Black wasnt my first choice either but the car had everything else I wanted. A white 911 is a beautiful car no matter what model.
Especially Glacier White. ..plus some on here say all the white ones have the...uhh...strongest engines..
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:50 AM
  #54  
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KBB (Blue Book) has zero relevance when pricing any 993.

The ONLY thing that matters here is that a buyer got the car he wanted at the price he wanted and now we have another happy 993 driver on the roads.
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Old 03-30-2007, 11:54 AM
  #55  
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Sounds like we are talking about different things here. A good color good option low mileage pristine car is selling for a lot of money. $60k plus is regular. I know of transactions well above that. white cashmere tip with 90k is not this car. it is not close to this car. It is absolutely a great car, but its priced differently. I have people looking for good 993's. This is probably one of them. I also have customers will to pay top money for premium cars.

There is a huge difference between a good, well cared for car, and a pristine car. My personal 96 c2 coupe is a good, well cared for car. It was pristine when i bought it. its been driven a lot since, but it has seen some depreciation as a result.

The bell curve is absolutely in place here. The 2000 mile 98 c4s coupe i saw sell for nearly 80k is one side, this car at sub30k is the opposite side. We do see cars in the mid-lower section of the curve priced a tier or two above where they should be, but they dont sell, and then the price is reduced. Or, the owner wants to sell only if he gets top money, and decides to keep it when he realizes his car doesnt command top money.

also, i would say that the average buyer of a mid to high level 98 S coupe has enough money to pay a little more for the car they really want. to some people, like in DC's example, the wrong car has little to no value, but they pay what they must for the right example. This is all market value stuff, if people will pay 58-65 for a pristine low mileage car, thats its market value, like it or not. if people will pay 30k for a high mileage good condition car, thats its market value, like it or not.

Just my opinion, based on what i've seen...
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:11 PM
  #56  
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Alfie: Not talking about two different things here. The point you made is something that DC, myself and I think most people here are in agreement on. Two markets...check. There just seems to be a bit of hair splitting on wether this particular C2S was a great deal or not. No one here is comparing this car to a $50k+ C2S but I think it's fantastic value at $29k and I've never seen one priced this low. A bit unique I think and the traffic on this thread tells me that a lot of other people think so too.

DC: agree and the kbb was made in reference to the fact that it's so irelevant due to its innacuracy that it may have played a role in how the car was priced (below market). In my observation, this car would've been more accurately priced in the mid to higher $30s provided that its in excellent condition as represented. If you look up a C2S with this mileage it'll reflect a trade in value of mid $20s and a retail price of around $30k.
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Old 03-30-2007, 12:24 PM
  #57  
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I think it is difficult to price a C2S with 80k miles and a tip. First there are very few C2S around. Most of the ones for sales are in the lower mileage braket, garage queens. There is a sense that the mkt for those is quite transparent with prices going from the low $50s to high $70s for ultra low miles....

But the mkt for the high miles C2S do not show up frequently. And even less with a tip. So it is difficult to really say what they should be worth. Now we have a price point... $29k. It sold quickly. So maybe the seller could have asked for a little more... Maybe $30k, $31k... who knows... certainly the next buyer will know....
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Old 03-31-2007, 12:39 AM
  #58  
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My car is white and a Tip. But it has low miles (22k) and a black interior. Can I still play here?
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Old 03-31-2007, 03:02 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Alfie
Sounds like we are talking about different things here. A good color good option low mileage pristine car is selling for a lot of money. $60k plus is regular. I know of transactions well above that. white cashmere tip with 90k is not this car. it is not close to this car. It is absolutely a great car, but its priced differently. I have people looking for good 993's. This is probably one of them. I also have customers will to pay top money for premium cars.

There is a huge difference between a good, well cared for car, and a pristine car. My personal 96 c2 coupe is a good, well cared for car. It was pristine when i bought it. its been driven a lot since, but it has seen some depreciation as a result.

The bell curve is absolutely in place here. The 2000 mile 98 c4s coupe i saw sell for nearly 80k is one side, this car at sub30k is the opposite side. We do see cars in the mid-lower section of the curve priced a tier or two above where they should be, but they dont sell, and then the price is reduced. Or, the owner wants to sell only if he gets top money, and decides to keep it when he realizes his car doesnt command top money.

also, i would say that the average buyer of a mid to high level 98 S coupe has enough money to pay a little more for the car they really want. to some people, like in DC's example, the wrong car has little to no value, but they pay what they must for the right example. This is all market value stuff, if people will pay 58-65 for a pristine low mileage car, thats its market value, like it or not. if people will pay 30k for a high mileage good condition car, thats its market value, like it or not.

Just my opinion, based on what i've seen...

Alfie,

I agree with your overall views yet I do think you are somewhat conflicted being in the business. Museum, collector, do not drive unless the temperature is over 50 degrees type cars will always command huge premiums. So what!!! These cars are made to be driven and driven hard.

Ledd4u -- congrats on a terrific buy on what seems to be a terrific car. I hope you are not another flipper which pissed me off to no end when this happened to the white tip now sitting at Wilhoits. Purchased for $31K with no miles (hmmm---another stake in the ground for market value) and now being offered for over $50K).

Museum specimans are worth big $$$$. Cars driven by real men are not.

So, for those in the market to buy, i hope we all can have the great fortune of Ledd4u. For those individuals who are selling, I hope you are being reasonable and quickly achieve your sale. For those peddling the low mileage editions, I do hope you hit your numbers without huge floorplanning costs. When you do sell it, please make sure you throw in the museum ropes in the deal.

I do enjoy when these topics come up....now almost weekly!
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Old 03-31-2007, 10:49 AM
  #60  
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Some of us don't have the abilty to drive more often than we do. We have kids, a wife, a time-consuming job....we don't wan't to drive short distances or in the winter months with heavy salt on the roads.

Alfie was posting his real life experiences with these cars...he has no inventory to push. His point of view is very helpful and very relevant. He is actually stating that the 993 holds value better than the cars he makes his living selling.....how is he conflicted?

There are more than enough actual sales to establish value within a relatively small margin. Agree/disagree/discuss........but let's leave the petty comments at home.
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