Mobil 1 15w-50 vs. 15w-50 Extended Life
03-13-2007, 09:32 PM
#32
Steve,
Are you recomending Mobile One 15w-50 (SM) with an 8 oz bottle of GM EOS per 11 quart
oil change for the 993 series (total 12 QT) ? Or what about the Fully synthetic Mobil 1® Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 that still for now has a SL rating?
Thanks,
Glenn
Are you recomending Mobile One 15w-50 (SM) with an 8 oz bottle of GM EOS per 11 quart
oil change for the 993 series (total 12 QT) ? Or what about the Fully synthetic Mobil 1® Turbo Diesel Truck 5W-40 that still for now has a SL rating?
Thanks,
Glenn
03-13-2007, 10:07 PM
#33
Three Wheelin'
Originally Posted by GrantG
This may be true, but the experience show MUCH higher wear of engine internals that were exposed to the new lower ZDDP oils...
Originally Posted by GrantG
Interesting point, but maybe GM only advised EOS upon assembly, since it was made at a time when motor oil had ample additives...
Marketing idea - buy STP or EOS, put it into a really cool looking futuristic bottle, claim improved engine life - yadda yadda stringent TUV engine standards yadda yadda - and charge 200% markup - say $15 a quart and watch the money roll in until FTC catches up to you!
Last edited by tj90; 03-13-2007 at 11:49 PM.
03-13-2007, 10:23 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Unfortunately the oil companies stink in communicating real data about their products - relying on marketing hype and in the end a bunch of wild *** assumptions are made including my own! I think I will keep tabs on this while more data rolls in. Hopefully the oil companies are listening to the backlash and either reformulating to higher ZDDP or preparing real response to better superior additives to ZDDP. Even though I dont use Amsoil - dont care for their selling strategy - at least the give more technical information to the consumer than their big conglomerate oil peers...
03-13-2007, 10:43 PM
#35
I think this is the EOS referenced. My preference is one stop shopping without additives if buying the best quality oil, so will go what is recommended by Porsche. One thing I do know the oil industry does a good job in confusing the market place by consistently rolling out the latest and greatest. But the manufactures do the same with all their recommendations. Maybe that is why there is some co-marketing between them and M1. 
On GM EOS Label"
"Available from GM dealers for about $10 per bottle, Engine Oil Supple-ment (E.O.S.) carries PN 1052367 and is a highly concentra-ted mixture of several key oil additives. It is designed to protect against piston scuffing and camshaft wear during the break-in period. But because of its heavy zinc and phosphorus content--which is advertised at no more than 5 percent by weight--and the increased risk of catalyst failure from it, GM officially advises that E.O.S. is not intented for long term use." Also stated can cause damage to cats. Also, if purchase EOS in CA it is different in rest of the states because of emissions.
On GM EOS Label"
"Available from GM dealers for about $10 per bottle, Engine Oil Supple-ment (E.O.S.) carries PN 1052367 and is a highly concentra-ted mixture of several key oil additives. It is designed to protect against piston scuffing and camshaft wear during the break-in period. But because of its heavy zinc and phosphorus content--which is advertised at no more than 5 percent by weight--and the increased risk of catalyst failure from it, GM officially advises that E.O.S. is not intented for long term use." Also stated can cause damage to cats. Also, if purchase EOS in CA it is different in rest of the states because of emissions.
03-13-2007, 11:39 PM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by mo
On GM EOS Label"
"Available from GM dealers for about $10 per bottle, Engine Oil Supple-ment (E.O.S.) carries PN 1052367 and is a highly concentra-ted mixture of several key oil additives.
"Available from GM dealers for about $10 per bottle, Engine Oil Supple-ment (E.O.S.) carries PN 1052367 and is a highly concentra-ted mixture of several key oil additives.
http://www.sdparts.com/product/10523...6ozBottle.aspx
03-13-2007, 11:44 PM
#37
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems
I'd be using a bottle of GM's Cam & Lifter Prelube at each oil change into any current product to bolster the ZDDP content into an acceptable range. 
Many thanks!
03-14-2007, 12:23 AM
#38
RL Technical Advisor
Hi Grant:
I see nothing wrong by using the V-Twin version of M1 aside from sub-freezing weather issues from a 20w-50 oil. Its formulated for high-output air-cooled engines that run high oil temps and contains sufficient ZDDP to protect these engines.
For those who operate their cars in sub-35 deg F conditions, I'd use something thinner for improved starting lubrication and that could be the 15w-50 or 0w-40 stuff.
One more tip: If I was going to use the 0w-40, I would disconnect the clutch pedal interlock that prevents starting unless the pedal is depressed. This reduces wear on the crankshaft thrust bearing (and we've seen excessive wear on those in cars so equipped). Those thin oils do not protect the bearing on a cold start with the pedal depressed.
Mark: Your Chevy dealer stocks those additiives as does Jegs.com
Glenn: If you add Cam & Lifter Prelube to the oil at each change, I think you can use the SM-rated M-1. Personally, I would not use a 5w-40 oil of ANY kind in an air-cooled engine.
I see nothing wrong by using the V-Twin version of M1 aside from sub-freezing weather issues from a 20w-50 oil. Its formulated for high-output air-cooled engines that run high oil temps and contains sufficient ZDDP to protect these engines.
For those who operate their cars in sub-35 deg F conditions, I'd use something thinner for improved starting lubrication and that could be the 15w-50 or 0w-40 stuff.
One more tip: If I was going to use the 0w-40, I would disconnect the clutch pedal interlock that prevents starting unless the pedal is depressed. This reduces wear on the crankshaft thrust bearing (and we've seen excessive wear on those in cars so equipped). Those thin oils do not protect the bearing on a cold start with the pedal depressed.
Mark: Your Chevy dealer stocks those additiives as does Jegs.com
Glenn: If you add Cam & Lifter Prelube to the oil at each change, I think you can use the SM-rated M-1. Personally, I would not use a 5w-40 oil of ANY kind in an air-cooled engine.
03-14-2007, 12:34 AM
#39
Steve
Just so I understand this, the Cam & Lifter Prelube your talking about is the same as GM EOS assembly lubricant ? Would you add a 16 oz bottle to an oil change ? (I've read, I think, that aprox 1/2 oz EOS to a qt of oil will raise the znnp by about 100 ppm?)
Thanks,
Glenn
Just so I understand this, the Cam & Lifter Prelube your talking about is the same as GM EOS assembly lubricant ? Would you add a 16 oz bottle to an oil change ? (I've read, I think, that aprox 1/2 oz EOS to a qt of oil will raise the znnp by about 100 ppm?)
Thanks,
Glenn
03-14-2007, 01:39 AM
#40
What about using the redline 15W50?
03-14-2007, 02:07 AM
#41
RL Technical Advisor
Originally Posted by glenn '88 944S
Steve
Just so I understand this, the Cam & Lifter Prelube your talking about is the same as GM EOS assembly lubricant ? Would you add a 16 oz bottle to an oil change ? (I've read, I think, that aprox 1/2 oz EOS to a qt of oil will raise the znnp by about 100 ppm?)
Thanks,
Glenn
Just so I understand this, the Cam & Lifter Prelube your talking about is the same as GM EOS assembly lubricant ? Would you add a 16 oz bottle to an oil change ? (I've read, I think, that aprox 1/2 oz EOS to a qt of oil will raise the znnp by about 100 ppm?)
Thanks,
Glenn
EOS and Cam & Lifter Prelube are different products.
One comes in a pint container and the other is a small plastic 4oz bottle.
03-14-2007, 04:37 AM
#42
All this talk about oil...well....when in doubt... 
so I did.
Straight from Page 85 of my Owner's Manual (I excluded the DINO weights since I think most run Syn):
Engine Oil Recommnedation:
Recommended oil viscosity ranges dependent on ambient temperatures.
Ambient temperatures
(seasonal)
mostly greater than
50F/10C
10 W-40
15 W-40
15 W-50
mostly lower than
14F/-10C
10 W-40
10 W-30
5 W-30
Use only classified engine oil with the service designation of API SH.
Don't utilitze thin oils for general use.
The "Don't" caution from the factory would seem to rule out the 0W-40...but there are plenty of 0W-40 advocates, and these are ostensibly people who know, or we believe should know...e.g. Joel Reiser, but he says 0W-40 is ok. WTF?
T. Callas filled my engine with M1 EP 15W-50...ACEA A3,B3/B4 API SM/CF. Is he mistaken/misinformed???? because this is an "SM" formulation, meaning less ZDDP, even though the marketing print on the bottles states..."Boosted with extra anti-wear for added protection in supercharged, turbo chared or other high-revving, high temperature conditions." Is the description "boosted" a lie?
Boosted from what to what? Hell, I can have a substandard level of additives, and "boost" them, to a higher, but still substandard level!
So my question is this, what is the best brand/grade of the oils the manufacturer of the vehicle recommends?
For the thin oil advocates, there's a pretty consistent theme on this board of going with OEM parts and specifications whenever possible...does that edict not apply to the factory's advice about oil? And if not, why not?
so I did.Straight from Page 85 of my Owner's Manual (I excluded the DINO weights since I think most run Syn):
Engine Oil Recommnedation:
Recommended oil viscosity ranges dependent on ambient temperatures.
Ambient temperatures
(seasonal)
mostly greater than
50F/10C
10 W-40
15 W-40
15 W-50
mostly lower than
14F/-10C
10 W-40
10 W-30
5 W-30
Use only classified engine oil with the service designation of API SH.
Don't utilitze thin oils for general use.
The "Don't" caution from the factory would seem to rule out the 0W-40...but there are plenty of 0W-40 advocates, and these are ostensibly people who know, or we believe should know...e.g. Joel Reiser, but he says 0W-40 is ok. WTF?
T. Callas filled my engine with M1 EP 15W-50...ACEA A3,B3/B4 API SM/CF. Is he mistaken/misinformed???? because this is an "SM" formulation, meaning less ZDDP, even though the marketing print on the bottles states..."Boosted with extra anti-wear for added protection in supercharged, turbo chared or other high-revving, high temperature conditions." Is the description "boosted" a lie?
Boosted from what to what? Hell, I can have a substandard level of additives, and "boost" them, to a higher, but still substandard level!
So my question is this, what is the best brand/grade of the oils the manufacturer of the vehicle recommends?
For the thin oil advocates, there's a pretty consistent theme on this board of going with OEM parts and specifications whenever possible...does that edict not apply to the factory's advice about oil? And if not, why not?
03-14-2007, 04:48 AM
#43
From M1 Website:
Product Description
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20, 5W-30,10W-30, and 15W-50 are advanced performance synthetic engine oils designed to provide protection and performance at extended oil change intervals of up to 15,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. Mobil 1 Extended Performance features extra performance additive that helps to provide outstanding protection during today's longer oil change intervals.
Features and Benefits
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 are made with a proprietary blend of high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive system, designed especially to deliver performance and protection during longer service intervals. Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils are uniquely designed to provide outstanding levels of performance, cleaning power and engine protection, even during longer oil change intervals. Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils are available in a wide range of viscosities. The 5W-20 and 5W-30 viscosities are recommended viscosity grades for newer vehicles. The 10W-30 viscosity provides excellent all-season performance and protection. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 is formulated to provide outstanding engine protection for high performance engines and for consumers who want a higher viscosity oil and higher anti-wear performance ( ZDDP) than typically required by modern vehicles.
Product Description
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20, 5W-30,10W-30, and 15W-50 are advanced performance synthetic engine oils designed to provide protection and performance at extended oil change intervals of up to 15,000 miles or 1 year, whichever comes first. Mobil 1 Extended Performance features extra performance additive that helps to provide outstanding protection during today's longer oil change intervals.
Features and Benefits
Mobil 1 Extended Performance 5W-20, 5W-30, 10W-30 and 15W-50 are made with a proprietary blend of high performance synthetic basestocks fortified with an advanced additive system, designed especially to deliver performance and protection during longer service intervals. Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils are uniquely designed to provide outstanding levels of performance, cleaning power and engine protection, even during longer oil change intervals. Mobil 1 Extended Performance oils are available in a wide range of viscosities. The 5W-20 and 5W-30 viscosities are recommended viscosity grades for newer vehicles. The 10W-30 viscosity provides excellent all-season performance and protection. Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15W-50 is formulated to provide outstanding engine protection for high performance engines and for consumers who want a higher viscosity oil and higher anti-wear performance ( ZDDP) than typically required by modern vehicles.
03-14-2007, 10:31 AM
#44
Burning Brakes
The article mentions the STP product as a readily available additive for the Mobil 1. Is anyone trying that? It seems a reasonable and easy solution. I just bought a bunch of the new M1 at Costco, and would like to use it with an additive for peace of mind.
03-14-2007, 10:33 AM
#45
Steve,
Oh great ! Based on eariler Rennlist and Pelican Board forum discussions, I bought a case of the GM EOS (only way I could order it) !
More confused than ever,
Glenn
Oh great ! Based on eariler Rennlist and Pelican Board forum discussions, I bought a case of the GM EOS (only way I could order it) !
More confused than ever,
Glenn