GrantG

Take a look at the chart on Charles's site - some Amsoil products have lots of protection and others don't - the best are their motorcycle formulas, it seems...

Name P (ppm) Zn (ppm) Viscosity API Type
Amsoil 7500mi** 334 1096 5w20 SL SEMI
Amsoil V-Twin/MC 1193 1281 20w50 SJ SYN
Amsoil Series 2000 Racing Oil 1014 1123 20w50 SM SYN
Bardahl Stop Leak/Smoke 53 4 THICK N/A O/A
Boron Motor Silk** 0 0 THIN N/A O/A
Castrol Act Evo 765 1126 20w50 SG
Castrol GTX 1157 1422 20w50 SM DINO
Castrol GTX High Mile 1248 1382 20w50 SM DINO
Castrol GP 4STK MC2 767 1133 20w50 SG
Castrol Syntec* 921 914 5w50 SM SYN
Castrol TWS*,** 425 1294 10w60 SJ SYN
CD-2 Maxx Oil Detergent 1 7 THIN N/A O/A
Chevron Delo 400 1191 1622 15w40 CI-4/SL DINO
CMW Racing Oil Concentrate 2292 1147 THICK N/A O/A
Delvac 1*,** 1390 1803 5w40 CI-4/SL DINO
Delvac 1300 Super*,** 1380 1702 15w40 CI-4/SL DINO
Ford Motorcraft** 545 848 5w20 SM SEMI
Elf 505.01 VW 584 1092 5w40 VW SYN
Exxon Av Break-in oil (non-det.) 1 4 20w50 MIL DINO
Exxon Av Oil (non-det.) 702 32 20w50 MIL SEMI
Exxon Superflow**,*** 717 848 20w50 SM DINO
Harley Davidson Syn3*,** 1081 1182 20w50 N/A SYN
Husqvarna 2-stroke 7 19 THIN N/A DINO
Kendal GT (Vintage/Green oil) 1229 1415 20W50 SE DINO
Kendall GT** 582 872 10w30 SM SEMI
Kendall GT** 598 897 10w40 SM SEMI
Kendall GT 904 1233 20w50 SM DINO
Lucas High Perf. Motor Oil 386 460 20w50 N/A SYN
Mobil 1 Extended Performance** 1315 1428 15w50 SL SYN
Mobil 1 Extended Performance**
906 1024 15w50 SM SYN
Mobil 1 Super Syn*,** 1343 1390 15w50 SL SYN
Mobil 1 V Twin** 1329 1949 20w50 SG SYN
Mobil 5k Clean 660 1028 10w40 SM DINO
Mobil High Mile 527 1021 10w40 SM DINO
Motul 505.01 VW 973 1226 5w40 VW SYN
Motul Competition* 1148 1327 15w50 SH SYN
Motul Tekma Mega*,** 1220 1737 15w40 CI-4/SL DINO
Penn Grade 1 Racing*,*** 960 1269 20w50 SJ SEMI
Pennzoil** 501 800 20w50 SM DINO
Power Service Oil Extender 3567 4945 THIN N/A O/A
Quaker State Q Full Syn 923 908 5w50 SM SYN
Redline 1440 1872 10w40 SL SYN
Redline 924 1004 15w50 SM SYN
Rotella 1278 1555 15w40 CI-4/SL DINO
Rotella 1397 1552 5w40 CI-4/SL SYN
Royal Purple Max Cycle 3907 1458 20w50 N/A SYN
Royal Purple ('06 sample) 1290 1337 20w50 SJ SYN
Royal Purple ('07 sample) 668 763 20w50 SJ SYN
Royal Purple Racing 51 1285 1417 20w50 N/A SYN
Schaeffer 7000 Supreme 1249 1626 20w50 SL SEMI
Schaeffer Micron Moly 110 5 THICK N/A O/A
STP Blue 1704 2436 THICK N/A O/A
STP Red 2115 3932 THIN N/A O/A
Torco T-4SR 1059 969 20w50 SG SYN
Torco V Series ST* 1030 1286 20w50 SG SEMI
Torco SR-5 1072 830 20w50 N/A SYN
Valvoline Durablend 566 732 20w50 SM SEMI
Valvoline Max Life 691 879 20w50 SM DINO
Valvoline Max Life Protect 537 768 THIN N/A O/A
Valvoline Prem. Blue** 1314 1838 15w40 CI-4/SL DINO
Valvoline Synpower 356 551 THIN N/A O/A
Valvoline VR1 1085 1293 20w50 SL DINO

*Magnesium added. **Boron added. ***Sodium added. For info on other additive levels in a particular oil, please email us and we would be more than happy to share our findings.

GrantG

This Pelican thread has tons of info (long):

http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...0&pagenumber=1

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks, Grant. I've been following that thread. I'm not convinced that dropping in the GM EOS in a synthetic is the best way to go. It looks like I'll be buying a motorcycle oil in either a Mobil 1 or Amsoil flavor.

GrantG

Yeah, Mark, I agree about adding an additive. I'd rather start with something that can stand on its own. I JUST put 22 quarts of the new (bad) M1 15W50 in my two cars before hearing the news, so I'm going to use the EOS additive (in the 73 anyways) until I get a good replacement oil...

Spuds993

Keep in mind that the M1 V-twin oil is a 20-50w, not something I would put in my 993 with hydraulic lifters... Ok for older cars no doubt, 20-50w was what I always ran in my early track car.

ltc

Also discussed in the Racing/DE forum, page 2 of this thread:
https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...6&page=2&pp=15

I'm lucky, the 10 5 qt containers of the definite 'old M1 15W-50' should last me long enough to eventually figure out what is going on....I hope.

First ethanol in the gas, then ULSD for the Excursion Powerstroke, now this.....thanks EPA

viperbob

Yes after checking with a bunch of resources (including failures of race motors) the Extended Performance is as close as you can get to the original formula for overall performance and longevity. The new formulas (as mentioned) have been modified due to EPA issues (catalytic concerns). I only use the EP anymore.

DJF1

I'll wait till the new mobil gets tested, otherwise I'll just stick with the local Mobil 1 5-50 that they sell here in canada and see what the car feels like.

tj90

Ive been following the thread as well. Although I feel the same as others do about higher ZDDP = better, I have to point out that:
1) SM oils are tested to much more stringent wear tests than SL API standard. My information comes from the Amsoil tech bulletin. Check it out. Flat tappet motors were included in the test protocol.
2) GM clearly does not recommend EOS for motors that are already broken in. Even though you are boosting ZDDP, little is known what you are doing to the chemistry that the chemist and tribologist are designing. Once you mix other items into the base chemistry, your altering the formulation. Are you hurting the anti-wear charateristics? Who knows...
3) Too frequent of oil changes or too low oil temps can actually inhibit the ability the oil to combat wear. Although low oil temps seem to never be a problem for our air cooled motors - its something to think about when running around town with your oil cooler on high.
4) No one on the thread has been able to substantiate or show data that coorelates ZDDP levels to engine wear. Sure, we all know that qualitatively higher ZDDP is good, but how much is sufficient? Who set the 0.12 - 0.14% as the "safe" level? Where is the data that 0.07% SM level is unsafe? After all, the wear tests (2 ball and 4 ball) are published - do we throw the data out?


I personally would pick a dino oil with higher ZDDP (like CI diesel) than using a low ZDDP synthetic and trying to boost it with an additive. Unfortunately it is too early to tell if the SM oils really result in increased engine wear but unfortunately we are the guinea pigs charting new territory with our air cooled motors. Be careful that your plan to homebrew your oil to avoid the lower ZDDP of SM and CJ oil being introduced does not hurt you more in the long run!

Excuse me if Im comparing apples to oragnes, but -
I can remember when leaded gas was being phased out. I was too young to be a gearhead, but I can remember people adding additives, stockpiling fuel, people complaining that the unleaded fuel was ruining motors. What happened to the hysteria of running a car designed for leaded gas on unleaded?

Im suprised that more of us on RL are not boosting our gas. After all, the car was designed for more octane, but most of us in CA run 91 and go on our way!

GrantG

They make a 10W40 also if you prefer (will be tested by Charles very soon):

http://mobiloil.com/USA-English/Moto...4T_10W-40.aspx

Mark in Baltimore

Complete and utter confusion...

Mark in Baltimore

But what are you giving up by it not being a 50?

GrantG

Ive been following the thread as well. Although I feel the same as others do about higher ZDDP = better, I have to point out that:
1) SM oils are tested to much more stringent wear tests than SL API standard. My information comes from the Amsoil tech bulletin. Check it out. Flat tappet motors were included in the test protocol.

This may be true, but the experience show MUCH higher wear of engine internals that were exposed to the new lower ZDDP oils...


2) GM clearly does not recommend EOS for motors that are already broken in. Even though you are boosting ZDDP, little is known what you are doing to the chemistry that the chemist and tribologist are designing. Once you mix other items into the base chemistry, your altering the formulation. Are you hurting the anti-wear charateristics? Who knows...

Interesting point, but maybe GM only advised EOS upon assembly, since it was made at a time when motor oil had ample additives...

GrantG

Jerry Woods is currently recommending the Swepco 15W40 for all aircooled 911's and Swepco also makes 20W50, FWIW...

Steve Weiner-Rennsport Systems

I'd be using a bottle of GM's Cam & Lifter Prelube at each oil change into any current product to bolster the ZDDP content into an acceptable range.