Mike in Chi

I think you last line is a big part of it. And remember just about everybody faster was once where you are. (Hey, I still need 3 seconds to be at the front of my class - Doh)

I'd be glad to go out with you for a few sessions next year.

You by chance going to the PCA dinner/dance on Sat?

Traffic53

ok, dude. no offense sway, but you're off your rocker. there is not much reason to argue these points, except for the fact that it's fun. to say that the only 911 to keep up with a c5 zo6 is a 996 gt3 is just plain silly. gt3's will lap 12 seconds quicker than the vette we are discussing at the 3.5 mile autobahn course near chicago. it doesn't just keep up, it is in a different class. but we are not talking about gt3's.

the c5 is NOT an all-out better handling chassis than the 993 when comparing stock cars. i've never heard anyone claim such a thing. the vette is a very good car. i'm not ripping it. i just don't think you can compare the c5 and 993 and come away with the idea that the c5 is a better car, on any level.

chevy has made huge progress with the corvette. the c5 was a big leap over the previous model, while the new c6 is even better. the jump in performance and technology from the c5 to c6 is so big that every magazine and tv show in the world wants to put it up against what has become a benchmark- the current 911. the bottom line is that it is difficult to notice the advancements that porsche makes with each new 911, because it's such a capable car to begin with. the new vette, on the other hand, is considered to be remarkable. why? because the previous models suck giant gorilla *****. i'm glad you are happy with your c5's. you're a cheap date. they are not track bred cars, period. they do well on the street and at the drag strip. they are excellent cars for middle-aged men who what to impress their wife/buddy/kids. but chevy hasn't built a vette that can turn well until now. and the price shows.

the new zo6 is roughly $75k. they are beginning to cost some real money because they are incorporating real technology. the c6 is a fine car indeed.

personally, i am not impressed with anything you have to say about corvettes as your views are the polor opposite of correct.

agdamis

Mike

No I did not see it in time.

Quadcammer

I think you really need to re-evaluate your position on Corvettes. The c5 is a very capable vehicle, on the street and on the track. A z06 is even more so.

The ls6 is a reliable and torquey motor, and it should command some respect. Light, cheap, compact, and good on gas. excellent motor.

solid chassis, good driving position, fairly neutral handling, etc.

By performance specs along, the z06 is the better car, but as we all know, there is more to a sports car than the numbers.

Greg Fishman

Let me drive your car

2:55 is better than a 2:35 and hitting the wall in the kink (or elsewhere).

Traffic53

oh good god, mates! what i'm talking about is not a matter of opinion. i'm not expressing my impressions of the cars exterior.

i admit, and always have, that the last 2 vettes are decent, proper sports cars on the street and track. but my praise begins and ends there. because the car is mainly designed for street driving, it's potential is limited when you ask too much of it. track work is too much for the c5. the c6 is MUCH more at home on a race track, but still a limited platform- reguardless of how many litres you make that engine. a c6 will never really be a gt3 level track car. porsche customers expect different things than chevy customers. the 911 will absolutely provide incredible endurance, braking performance, and handling for the track as well as proper street manners. - and it'll do it all with an engine roughly half the size of the mighty vette.

the vette will do good things too. it'll always be a great value. it will sprint to 100mph like little else. it also handle like it's on rails around those street corners. it'll feel very, very quick. the problems i have with it is what it won't do. it won't do snow. it won't do more than 2 people. it won't do roof racks. it won't do anything for too long, without over-heating. they squeek and rattle.

the 911 is a better built, more versital car with performance equal or greater than that of the corvette. all the sudden, the corvette isin't as good a deal. the 911 is at least as good of a driving experience as the vette, plus it'll do a bunch of other ****.

tj90

like give you the option to remove its engine tray and allow you to shift and start the car at the same time!

I dont know about you guys but does vette get walked on by the 911s in the petite lemans races?

Also, I never see any vette drivers driving "spirited" on the road. Usually they are older guys putzing around. Not trying to rip on vette - I certainly would take a Z06, but where are the guys driving with gusto? I dont see 'em in SOCAL....

When Im out in the 993, I constantly get in spirited drives (not aggressive, but fun) with 964s, 996s etc. Hell a guy in a modded miata was driving behind me enjoying a curvy road with me last year. Fun breeds fun, smiles are addictive - never can get vette guys to join in.... cant get the vette guys to even turn their head on the road.... Do they enjoy driving or having garage queen?

With that said - there was a guys who showed up with one at the local POC event and he was working the car - very quick...

carcommander

My Z06 will leave my 993, F360 and CL55 for dead. They are all great fun to drive. What is more telling is that I still have a 10 year old porsche, that I have had since new .A lot of other sports cars have come and gone. Who cares which is fastest, they are all fun. IMHO the vette does not have the build quality of the other 3 but is loud and fun. If you find me on a heavily traveled public road in one of them I will not play. If we are on a back road somewhere..........

SwayBar

I'm sure, no doubt, going that fast in the NA 944!

I'll take you up on that; I'll be there at the May event for sure.

If you like tap-beer, Lake Street Cafe has many good ones available. And the best blackened prime rib is at Sal's...

I agree.

On the other hand,
Well, that's not the case at 4.1 mile Road America as the only other street Porsche I'm aware of that can do 2:31 is a black 996 GT3. And I do not know what mods, if any, he has besides the obvious wheels and Hoosiers, but that guy can fly.

So if there is a 12-second disparity (..an eternity on the track) between the GT3's and the C5 Z06's at Autobahn (..and providing the GT3's are streeters), then it's superior drivers in the GT3's.

For example:
You don't think so, huh? Where is some supporting documentation to back-up your claim? Since you evidently have none, then why don't you compare the Nurburgring lap times generously provided earlier in the thread? Let me help you out; keep in mind that both the C5 and C6 Z06 times are in completely stock machines down to the stock street-tires.

First, the 993 times:

7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (sport auto 99)
7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/98)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/97)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo works tuning (sport auto 06/97)
8:20 --- 148.320 km/h -- Porche 993 GT3, Walter Roehrl (Car magazine 10/99)
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- Porsche 993 Carrera 2, 285 PS/1452 kg (sport auto 01/98)
8:46 --- 140.989 km/h -- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS

The Z06 times:

(..C6) 7:42.9 - 160.207 km/h -- Corvette Z06, 500 PS/1319 kg, Jan Magnusen, (Sporbilen, jun,26 05), http://www.supercars.net/Pics?vpf2=...mID=1384471&l=d
(..C5) 7:56* - 155.798 km/h -- Chevrolet Corvette Z06 ,company chief engineer Dave Hill (*mfr.)

As you can see, It's not even close when comparing the stock 993 times:

8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo (sport auto 03/97)
8:20 --- 148.320 km/h -- Porche 993 GT3, Walter Roehrl (Car magazine 10/99)
8:28 --- 145.984 km/h -- Porsche 993 Carrera 2, 285 PS/1452 kg (sport auto 01/98)
8:46 --- 140.989 km/h -- Porsche 993 Carrera S, 285 PS

..and yet the bone-stock Z06's also trounce the tuner 993's:

7:46 --- 159.142 km/h -- SHK Porsche 993 GT2, 652 PS (sport auto 99)
7:57 --- 155.472 km/h -- Lotec Porsche 993 Turbo, 600PS/1558 kg (sport auto 05/98)
8:12 --- 150.732 km/h -- Porsche 993 Turbo works tuning (sport auto 06/97)

The only reason I can attribute towards your pure, raw, unadulterated clueless-ness, is that you're simply a 'polisher' versus a 'driver'. A true driver always gives props to another other car if deserved, while a polisher has a spotless car and is talking nonsense, non-stop.

Take one more look at those Nurburgring times and think about those next time you're out cleaning your wheels...
And don't forget to lick clean your (..lug) nuts.

Keep polishing, I'm sure your car looks great!

Maybe one of these days you'll discover that you really can shift above 3000 RPM, but in the meantime, I'm sure you'll argue aimlessly/incessantly that one shouldn't, and do-so without any supporting documentation.

jimbo3

Yah? My dad can whip all y'all's dads. And your mom wears Army boots. So, THERE!

Traffic53

ok, sway boy. it would probably be best for you scoot back over to the 928, or corvette forums. you are just trolling here. are you challenging my opinion, or are you calling me names and speculating about my driving skill? a true driver gives props to other cars? how many times must is say in my posts that the corvette is a very good car? do i need to buy one for that to mean something, or are you ignoring that on purpose- because you're trolling?

standing behind numbers posted at the ring only tells one story. it's a fast, high horsepower track with loads of straight line running. nobody here will argue that a 911 should be or will be faster at that venue. the 993/996/997 all weigh about the same as the corvette, only they have FAR less power and FAR smaller engines. on shorter, technical tracks, the porsche does very well against c5 and c6 corvettes.

it's cool to use rennlist for free as much as you like, but do you really want to call it's supporting members names while you're doing it?

what a ****.

Mike in Chi

Sway

I love Lake Street, especially the homemade chips to go along with the beer.

Have you been to the steak house in St Anna's? Great red meat.

I likely be at RA in May, instructing.

YellowC4S

Corvette was the las POS 'merican made car I purchased. Never Again!!

Traffic53

can you elaborate? is it because it's screwed together by the UAW, or because it's poorly designed...or perhaps both?

YellowC4S

Well It kinda goes like this. It was August 1989. I was 24 and a young exec at a local radio station. I purchased a new Corvette. It was a beautiful car, bright blue with blue int. 1989 was the first year of the 6 speed transmission. Anyway, I had the car for 2.5 months and was up at the dealership with it so much they were talking about making me a timecard. I had trim problems, electrical problems, they had to replace the muffler, service this light, service that light, went out one morning and car would not start, the passenger side outside mirror would go in and out but not up or down, the drivers side mirror was found hanging by its cables one morning, the adjustable side bolsters on the seats had broken away from their hinges. I finally said **** it and my next two cars were grey market BMW's, an M5 and then an M6. With the exception of one foray into an Infiniti, and an old first gen Mazda RX7, the germans have gotten my money since 1989. I was recently in need of another vehicle and actually tried to buy an american made car. All I wanted was a sports sedan with 4 doors and a manual transmission that was not FWD. The only thing that is available on this side of the pond is the caddillac cts which in my opinion is ugly as ****. I then relented and said just give me something available in a stick where the engine is not mounted sideways. I struck out there also. I ended up buying a Volkswagen Jetta. I'm certain I will have another P-car someday but my next car purchase will be an Aston Martin V8 Vantage.