blacklotus99

Hi All,

Been lurking here for a while but now the 993 purchasing schedule looks like it is coming up pretty quick so would like some advice on a one owner 50K mi '97 nb which I had a ppi done on recently. From what I could see the car had some minor issues, mostly interior which were all fixable for not a lot of money. Seemed like an ok thing from the drive.

Not being very handy with a wrench (leave that to the experts) I took it for the ppi with a well known local specialist. They came back with the following list (excluding v minor things like "low power steering fluid level"):

1. Air direction boot split on alternator housing
2. Alternator belt split
3. Ignition leads cracking
4. Top and bottom cam covers leaking
5. Cylinder 1-3 barrels weeping
6. timing chain housing to crankcase gaskets weeping
7. Engine breather hose area weeping
8. Front pads/discs required in approx 3K mi
9. Front shockabsorber bump stop rubbers split
10. Windscreen pitted/scratched
11. Rear bumper bar is incorrect
12. Front windscreen seal incorrect fitted (and leaking)
13. Passenger door trim falling apart, door pocket lids broken
14. A/C - 2 faults found
15. Cruise control inoperative
16. Clutch pedal squeaks when operated

There are around this number of small things also reported as issues.
Obviously, I am concerned most about 4, 5 and to a lesser degree 11 (which wont be cheap I imagine). Can the experts on this board let me know firstly about general thoughts on this ppi and what the likely costs would be in getting this car correct. My initial thoughts are "I think I will pass" but would like to know what you guys think.

Great forum by the way. Wish I had bought that Riviera blue RUF BTR now!!

ca993twin

I dunno... this sounds like a pretty big "project" car for a guy that doesn't turn wrenches. I also get the sense that this car was not all that well loved. How are the shocks? How is the clutch? Find that BTR!

blacklotus99

Car has had two clutches, the last one 5K mi ago.
Shocks (rear) were done at 30K and ppi says they are ok for now but should be swapped for bilsteins.
One of the local car mags did an article on the riviera BTR. I will see if I can find it.

nota_troll

pass

993inNC

what do they want for it? If its a good deal, you can have the work done and still be okay. Or maybe you're looking for a "queen", in which in that case you should pass on it.

blacklotus99

Top dollar is being asked for this one. Arctic silver with black and last of the nb.
In Australia these 993 manual coupes are extremely hard to find (especially the vario cars). They are all pretty tightly held and of course sold in nowhere like the volume they did in the US. The market for these 993's is so strong at the moment that people can ask silly money for them and usually get it. I really want to buy the best one that I can get as it will be a daily driver and I need the reliability.

My understanding is that item 5 means a top end so is going to be $8K to do plus another $2-3K for the oil leaking from both cam covers. Can someone confirm this approx correct?

I think I have found a c4s manual which I am investigating. Can someone tell me the cost to do a set of pads/discs all round on a c4s (turbo brakes afaik)?

993inNC

Well what's top dollar? Can't comment on #5, mine's doing the same thing but I have heard not to worry about it until a weep is a leak or that cylinder looses compression. Disks and rotors on a C4s is $1200 USD

jnx

I agree, pass.

DBYT

Where in Aus are you? If you are in Melb, I can provide you with the name of a very good Porsche mechanic who does private rebuilds on the side.

blacklotus99

What I mean by top dollar on this car is AUD$90K which is USD$67K! This is pretty much top of the tree for a nb car down here.
Due to import tariffs and luxury car taxes this car would have been about USD$138K when new (maybe more because the USD was worth a little less back then).

Can I assume that the $1200 on c4s discs/pads is parts only, and would be $2K fitted?

That is my understanding also. The cylinder weeping is only really an issue when there is a loss of compression. ppi folks have said that it is an inevitable top end job, just a question of how soon. Interesting they commented that the engine tray was still on at 50K mi and that they always take them off as they werent designed for hot climates, more for european conditions (cool climate, drive by noise regs, salty roads etc). Sure fire way to cook the heads according to them...

Blaine S

If it is the car you've been looking for all of the ppi issues can be fixed and you'll soon forget about the cost. However two entire clutches in 50k seems like a lot and I agree with others that it doesn't seem like the PO treated this car with much respect.

I guess it depends on how perfect you want the car to be and how long you are willing to put up with some of the smaller issues. I had to fix some small oil leaks, brake light, belts, pads, rotors, and put a new clutch in "Brunhilde" when I bought her at 29k but now she is almost perfect and I couldn't be happier.

Again, if you really want that color/year and there are not many of them on the market it might be worth it. However, if you were to correct all of the PPI issues on day 1, you'd be out some serious $$$.

Mike in Chi

1 If they are that expensive, have you looked into importing one?

2 If the install is $800, you can easily do it yourself, even if you aren't great with a wrench.

3 Sounds like your shop did a very thorough PPI

blacklotus99

Importing is not a bad idea. There are quite a few imports here from the othert RHD markets (like HK and the UK). Can be a way to get a good RHD car here at a discount to the current market values. There is a very nice 964 3.6T with 3K miles on the clock here at the moment which is ex Hong Kong i think. Supposedly a very nice thing. I talked to the dealer yesterday, maybe I should go and have a drive. Not sure if its really me though.

On the pads/discs install I dont think I would trust myself doing it. If I had someone to show me then maybe but otherwise I think best to leave safety equipment install to someone who knows what they are doing.

I think the Arctic '97 is probably not for me. The guys who did the ppi (two guys who have 50 years collective experience with the air cooled cars) said they had seen a lot better things for less money than the asking on that car. I have spoken to them again and Im pretty convinced its not for me. I dont really want to have to spend $15K to get the car to where it should be. Looks like a pass, thanks to the board for all the info...

Mike in Chi

We all started there. With the exact same concern about safety equipment. Check around and see if you can find a Porsche Club member who does his or her own work.

Robin Sun's site has a step by step, as I recall.

I think you were smart passing on that car. If you have doubts, best to walk away. You'll find the right one, and when you do, you'll know it.