993 vs 964...your thoughts
06-06-2006, 07:06 PM
#31
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Yes, we all have a soft spot for the disadvantaged. 
Actually, the 964 is a great car. I consider it a transition car from the 1980's Carrera to the 993. There is a big leap between the two cars and the 964 was the leap forward to a new philosophy in design. The 964 started with the coil over springs on all fours, which brought a lot of potential to a new chassis. The 964 stock out of the box was close to 1 G in lateral acceleration with street tires.
The all-wheel-drive was the next big leap. It's true that they borrowed the 959, but the 964 was a street car and brought the technology to the masses.
All of this technology and they still captured the original 911 soul to boot. Most of the sheet metal was brand new, so it's classic look really belies the amount of changes that went in.
The 993 borrowed a lot from this pioneer and evolved the concept a little further, but there is no doubt that the 964 paved a lot of ground for the 993.
One good thing is the market value of the 964s has been suppressed. I think this is because it has never been able to form a bond with buyers and it has had a bit of a bad reputation with some of its known problems. Prices are generally around $20K, which is very close or even under good 1987-89 Carreras are fetching.
The 993's values are just starting to see a ***** in their armor. 993s have been very good at holding their value, but I suspect that the 997 has helped to force a depreciation of the 993. I would look for a further drop in 993 prices in the next two years.
The 996 has a bit of a black cloud following it. That has helped keep prices up a little on the air cooled cars, but the effect is temporary and expect to see the depreciation continue with the exception of the early 70's 911 which has enjoyed a real renaissance in prices. I have watched prices nearly double on these cars, which have been static for nearly 10 years prior to that.
Actually, the 964 is a great car. I consider it a transition car from the 1980's Carrera to the 993. There is a big leap between the two cars and the 964 was the leap forward to a new philosophy in design. The 964 started with the coil over springs on all fours, which brought a lot of potential to a new chassis. The 964 stock out of the box was close to 1 G in lateral acceleration with street tires.
The all-wheel-drive was the next big leap. It's true that they borrowed the 959, but the 964 was a street car and brought the technology to the masses.
All of this technology and they still captured the original 911 soul to boot. Most of the sheet metal was brand new, so it's classic look really belies the amount of changes that went in.
The 993 borrowed a lot from this pioneer and evolved the concept a little further, but there is no doubt that the 964 paved a lot of ground for the 993.
One good thing is the market value of the 964s has been suppressed. I think this is because it has never been able to form a bond with buyers and it has had a bit of a bad reputation with some of its known problems. Prices are generally around $20K, which is very close or even under good 1987-89 Carreras are fetching.
The 993's values are just starting to see a ***** in their armor. 993s have been very good at holding their value, but I suspect that the 997 has helped to force a depreciation of the 993. I would look for a further drop in 993 prices in the next two years.
The 996 has a bit of a black cloud following it. That has helped keep prices up a little on the air cooled cars, but the effect is temporary and expect to see the depreciation continue with the exception of the early 70's 911 which has enjoyed a real renaissance in prices. I have watched prices nearly double on these cars, which have been static for nearly 10 years prior to that.
Originally Posted by chancecasey
993's suck. 964's rule. nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah 
Seriously, I believe in the market on this one. Aesthetics aside, the 993 is obviously "better" for anyone except someone with a superior "palate" and a soft spot in their heart for the 964 for some obscure reason - like vintage wines. However, for me personally, the "betterness" is exactly offset by the increase in price. If you are neutral on aesthetics (or biased toward the 993) and have the scratch, get the 993.
Me personally, I'm slightly biased toward the 964. Not perfectly so, but more classic lines ( I just don't like the slanty headlights/fenders of the 993 - but oddly enough the 993 does have a sweeter a$$). And it was more in-line with my budget - very important when you're working for a living. I also like the fact that it was more "hand built" even if it's for the worse. When did they start using plastic valve covers?
If and when I get another one, I will likely go even farther back.
Seriously, I believe in the market on this one. Aesthetics aside, the 993 is obviously "better" for anyone except someone with a superior "palate" and a soft spot in their heart for the 964 for some obscure reason - like vintage wines. However, for me personally, the "betterness" is exactly offset by the increase in price. If you are neutral on aesthetics (or biased toward the 993) and have the scratch, get the 993.
Me personally, I'm slightly biased toward the 964. Not perfectly so, but more classic lines ( I just don't like the slanty headlights/fenders of the 993 - but oddly enough the 993 does have a sweeter a$$). And it was more in-line with my budget - very important when you're working for a living. I also like the fact that it was more "hand built" even if it's for the worse. When did they start using plastic valve covers?
If and when I get another one, I will likely go even farther back.
06-06-2006, 07:32 PM
#32
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The 993 is a great car,and many good points are made regaurding its advantages.The problem is its not the 911 I fell in love with as a kid.Real 911s have Bug eyed headlights,non opening vent windows, and a bunch of other stuff the 993 lacks.There is much more to a car than whos fastest or has more horsepower.Its about what the car convays and means to the owner.Look at how American muscle cars have taken off.It sure isn't based on their speed or handling.
06-06-2006, 07:38 PM
#33
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That's funny. That's the notion people had about the 996 when compared to the 993, same to the 964 compared to the 80s 911, and the 911 compared to the 356.....
06-06-2006, 07:39 PM
#34
Three Wheelin'
Marv - your post sounds logical. However, not sure about the 997 driving down the prices of the 993. Maybe the ultra-low mile pristine 993s but the average wear ones? I doubt many buyers of the 997 truly considering a 10 YO 993. If I had the money and the lack of time or interest in wrenching on a car, Id go with a 997. Im afraid many people could care less about air cooled or carrying a spare DME. Its all about the speed, power, looks and WARRANTY! On 3 of the 4 counts the 997 beats the 993.
06-06-2006, 07:40 PM
#35
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I agree!
Originally Posted by Robin 993DX
That's funny. That's the notion people had about the 996 when compared to the 993, same to the 964 compared to the 80s 911, and the 911 compared to the 356.....
06-06-2006, 07:41 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
Yeah Marv - I've seen the same thing with the early 70's which really bums me out since I don't already have one 
1975 and older cars are smog exempt here in CA - which is HUGE if you like doing mods. Now if the 77-78 SC was also smog-exempt, I would trade my 964 in a heartbeat - except that wifey would probably have my monoballs on a stick.
P.S. - I'm not one of those with the soft spot - just a soft wallet at this point
1975 and older cars are smog exempt here in CA - which is HUGE if you like doing mods. Now if the 77-78 SC was also smog-exempt, I would trade my 964 in a heartbeat - except that wifey would probably have my monoballs on a stick.P.S. - I'm not one of those with the soft spot - just a soft wallet at this point
06-06-2006, 09:52 PM
#37
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It is all personal taste...some say "ta ma toe" some say "ta may toe"...some people love the city, some people hate the city, some people love the air cooled, some people hate the air cooled, some people love Porsche, some people hate Porsche...and on and on and ...........
06-06-2006, 09:56 PM
#38
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Originally Posted by hawk993
It is all personal taste...some say "ta ma toe" some say "ta may toe"...some people love the city, some people hate the city, some people love the air cooled, some people hate the air cooled, some people love Porsche, some people hate Porsche...and on and on and ...........
06-06-2006, 09:59 PM
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I would own a 964 if it wasnt for the 993 5-link rear suspension. It makes the 993 a better driving car dynamically, at least in factory tune. I maintain several 964's and 993's, and drive both pretty regularly. The 993 is suprisingly different to drive depsite a lot of component sharing..
06-06-2006, 10:25 PM
#40
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My brother has a 964 and I had a 993. I love the 993s fluid looks, 6spd transmission, multilink suspension. The 964 has the classic 911 lines, bigger motor and sweet transmission.
All good in my book.
All good in my book.
06-06-2006, 10:28 PM
#41
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Originally Posted by nota_troll
The 964 has the classic 911 lines, bigger motor and sweet transmission.
.
.
06-06-2006, 11:14 PM
#43
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Let's throw in an added dimension to this - all things being equal, a 1993 964 costs less than a 1996 993 with similar miles and condition - say $5000 less?
Thus would you take a 964 + $5000 vs the 993?
Thus would you take a 964 + $5000 vs the 993?
06-07-2006, 12:00 AM
#44
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Originally Posted by mike_99l
...
...964s are great value for the money, but in the last year, their prices have goone up a bit , since its become very hard to find good examples. 993s are all over the market and their prices have been coming down because of 996's prices...
...964s are great value for the money, but in the last year, their prices have goone up a bit , since its become very hard to find good examples. 993s are all over the market and their prices have been coming down because of 996's prices...