Extrapilot@mac.com

I have owned a ocean blue c2 cab 1998 since new and am trying to sell it with 13576 total miles. Car is AS NEW. No dings or scratches. I am buying a new C2S. How do I get to the ads page? Hope this in not out of place on your list but I can't get hold of the administrator.
Extrapilot

John H

I hate to say it but I'd get the MV. My thing though is that I need a tow vehicle so that puts me into 4 door PU's or Suburbanesque vehicles.

mrsullivan

thanks again everyone... a couple responses to questions/comments

1) i would love a land cruiser or lexus, but they are just too expensive... we want to spend less than $50k on this vehicle...

2) as i said in the beginning, this is not some macho thing about not wanting to drive a mv... its more an enthusiast thing... i have always always always been a car guy, and i feel that even some suv's have a little soul, whereas mv may not

3) yes its going to mainly be her car and in the end i will get her whatever she wants...but i will have to drive it quite a bit so i would at least like the opportunity to pursuade her into something different if it makes sense

4) after this unexpectedly detailed/helpful thread, i am still thinking that the odessey or the sequoia will be the direction we go based on safety, reliabiliy, etc... and i would say that the mv is a bit in the lead right now based on all this feedback...

thanks!

Jastx

Jonathan ---- As we have discussed, GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Look at it this way...the reason Porsche people on this board like minivans is, that like your 993, they ARE performance vehicles. They are the superior performance choice when it comes to transporting a family with all of their paraphernaia or having the most versatile hauling device possible. They are like the Porsche of family hauling and can't be beat. Every detail of their design is geared toward their function. They are really neat automobiles.

We bought a Chrysler Town and Country in 1992, used it until 2001 when we bought another one. These have been GREAT cars and so has the dealer. The new ones with the Stow and Go seating are like the "killer app" of minivans. Yes, the Hondas are nice. In 1992 we like the Chrysler better. Today, I'd still lean that way with the seating capabilities I just mentioned, plus more dealers and better deals. And a great warranty.

Our 2001 T&C always surprises me when I drive it with how good it is. It's fast, smooth, quiet, with a clean design. It can easily cruise at 85 all day long loaded with people and stuff and it has an incredibly small turning radius. It even handles well. The dealer is also just a couple of miles away. For us, it's a better package than the Honda.

Like buying a 993, you can only go so far evaluating your choices on paper. You have got to get out and see and drive these things. Experience all the family-oriented features and drive them. Definitely see the stow and go seating in the Chrysler products. There isn't a better choice for your needs. Get the minivan, you won't regret it.

AGC

Here is my experience with regards to having minivans. I have owned several minivans and SUVs (mid and full size) over the years. I might be biased because I just think that minivans are the MOST practical vehicles out there. I have always had a minivan even before my kids were born, I just think they very practical and comfortable. They very comfortable on long trips and around the city, they have great seating positions and there is enough room for people, cargo or both (depending on the configuration of the back seats). My first minivan was a 1989 Dodge Caravan, after that I had several versions of the Dodge Grand Caravans. However I bought a 2000 Toyota Sienna before my first son was born because the dodge was getting old. After my son was born I told my wife why don't we get a Sequoia, it's reliable, it has enough room and it's an SUV (she had an Explorer before and loved having the 4wd function). Well we kept the Sequoia a total of 4 months and during that time my wife refuse to drive it (she used my 1996 Ford Windstar instead, go figure), so we traded it in on a 2004 Honda Odyssey EXL. There was nothing wrong with the Sequoia, she just felt getting in and out of the vehicle was a hassle and one morning while loading up my son into the Sequoia I almost slipped and fell; that sealed the deal to get a minivan instead. One thing we realize is that there is NOTHING compared to a minivan for practicality and convenience for a family vehicle. I sold my Lexus LS400 a couple of months ago because it was difficult having a sedan when you have two kids (not enough room for their STUFF). We are looking for another vehicle (around $12k-$15k) and are trying to decide between a full size SUV (because of the 4wd, we live in NJ/NYC) or another minivan. Well last week we decided that an AWD minivan would be the perfect solution (minivan space with AWD functionality). My wife or I commute with our kids daily (to the babysitters, because we both work) and feel that another minivan will serve us better than a full size SUV. Another thin I want to mention is a minivan is more economical than an SUV in terms of gas prices, insurance, initial cost and cost of ownership. Lat and most important item, based on my research a minivan is safer than an SUV (regardless of size), at first I refuse to accept this but reading more and more about it I have to agree that a minivan is safer than an SUV. I will start looking for a 01-02 AWD Chrysler Town and Country (because of price and AWD) as my daily driver to use for the next 2-3 years. When the Honda Odyssey hits 75-80k miles, I will be getting another Honda Odyssey (definitely the Touring). Sorry for the rambling, but I really think there is nothing out there that will beat a minivan as a family vehicle, not an SUV or the hybrid SUV/minivans.

hn

There is No Substitute for a mini van if you have more than 2 kids .

1. Easy access to the back rows to crying babies. Easy access between rows
allow kids to enter the van much faster.
2. The van is low and loading/unloading car seats take the least effort.
3. The floor is perfect when babies need to be changed.
4. Kids can't swing open sliding doors that can hit other cars parked on the
side.
5. Open floor allow easy cleaning which is quite often.
6. Seatings can be arranged in many ways to your convenience.
7. Better handling (can be fun if you buy the Odyssey) and fuel mileage.
8. Most important, kids love to travel in the van for its space and comfort.

We started with an extreme reliable Previa SC (sold my 6 mos old 4 Runner after seeing our daughter bouncing up/down in her car seat) with our first born and after more than 10 years, now with 3 ranging from 8-11, we have a 2005 Odyssey. After the Previa, I was thinking about getting a large suv for a change but for what is best for the whole family, I couldn't turn down a van. I decided on the Odyssey mainly because it's a fun van to drive. Being first year model, it has some issues but there's lots of debate wheather the Pax tires that come with the Touring worth the money. Not many places have the proper equipment to fix/install and it cost as much as $750 since you have to change the wheel too. I think it has 2 yrs warranty and hopefully by that time, the cost will be much less.

Common now, you have your fun car already. This is a family car you're shopping for.

If you're real car guy, you will appreciate the handling of the Ody over a large suv and that's called the soul...

ca993twin

Many years ago, I sold my 1989 Mazda MPV minivan (110k trouble free miles) and got my wife a 1997 Ford Expedition (because she said it was "cuter" than the mininvan... someone please explain THAT one to me). My anaylysis is that the minivan was a much better people hauler than the SUV, while the SUV was a better cargo hauler. The minivan also gave better fuel economy and fit into the garage better (we got the Expedition in, but it was a matter of "inches" of clearance). Now we have a sedan (Lexus ES330), and I still miss the practicality of that old minivan.

MikeInfo

I have to feel sorry for anyone needing to buy a car for practicality..
I'm a little supprised some drive a Porsche..maybe a nice comfy M3 would be better...
Funny how most of us grew up w/o them and I can't remember being an unhappy child because of the seating arrangement that I had growing up. If it doesn't fit in the car don't bring it. The bigger the car the more stuff people will stuff into it. I'm off...

Father of 3

What you childless people are missing is that with child safety seats being required, it is impossible to fit three kids in a sedan nowadays (or many SUVs for that matter). You can't put them in the front (unless you have an airbag switch) and the seats are wide enought to preclude three side-by-side in many cars/suvs. In the old days, kids could roam around the car with reckless abandon. I remember sleeping on the rear deck of our Pontiac sedan. Those days are gone.

When you are looking at cars, envision yourself getting kids in/out of the third row and what that will mean for your true cargo hauling capacity. What we do in our minivan most of the time is take out one of the mid-row seats. That way two can fit in the back, one in the middle, and the 1/4 to 1/2 of the cabin area can be used for cargo, at least for short hauls. It's sad to need to be practical but if you have more than 2 kids, it's also a necessity. Like I said before, ultimate practical car (minivan) offset by ultimate impractical car (911). No in between for me!

mrsullivan

people used to also smoke cigarettes freely in hospitals...

for me this is more about safety than anything else... it is at the very top of my list... a close second is having a happy wife and baby, comfortable, etc... minivans and SUVs are easier than sedans for that purpose i think...

dont worry, there will also always be a porsche in my garage...

911-TOUR

I'm going to chime in here with a vote for the Land Rover LR-3...We've had ours for over a year, and it's been one of the best cars I've ever owned. Smooth and safe, with barely a hint of roll. And it's fun to drive!

sean

Edward

Well, you asked. It's your choice, but for people-hauling, NOTHING beats a minivan ...and Honda's Odyssey (old model, and especially their newest offering) are the best; Toy's Sienna a close 2nd. SUVs get you towing capability. That's it. Oh wait, let's see, with SUVs you also get poorer mileage (typically), higher CG (less safe), extra weight (useless), and truck-like handling (oh yeah, that's fun), less interior space (again, typically), and less convenient (often even backbreaking) ingress/egress for rear occupants. Go out and drive an Odyss, or a Sienna. Not a Porsche fix by a longshot, but certainly not a bad car by any stretch of imagination. And either of these cars, yes "cars", handle superbly over the superslab, swallowing miles in absolute comfort (and increased safety with the gazzillion a-bags now coming standard on these things). Throw them into a corner (not like you'll be pulling high Gs with the little ones in there), but really, drive reasonlably fast in them and you'd be pleasantly surprised. You owe it to yourself to re-think your real motives before buying.

Edward

mrsullivan

ok here is the epilogue....

'We" have decided to get a minivan. After looking at several, we have narrowed down to the Honda Odyssey Touring w/Nav & DVD and the Toyota Sienna Limited AWD w/NAV & DVD...we are in the middle of a fierce comparative exercise between the two

The fit/finish and car-like driveability of the Honda is compelling. However, the loaded Limited Sienna is also nice, with a lexus-like interior, xenon headlights, and a few other goodies that arent available on the Odyssey. Toyota is also offering 36 month interest free financing... it's always hard to turn down "free money". I know this thread is off-topic, but I would appreciate hearing from anyone who compared the Odyssey and Sienna and why did you choose what you did, etc.

thanks, JT

texas911

OK, since you asked.

We looked hard at the Sienna and the Ody when we were shopping. The models we looked at were the Ody Touring with Nav/DVD and the Sienna Limited with about the same options. What we liked about the Sienna was that it was bit quieter but it just didn't handle as well because of it. Even my wife found it too soft a ride. Another thing we didn't like about the Sienna is the confusing array of option packages you have to navigate through, but the thing that we really hated is that any Toyota you buy in Texas goes through Gulf State Toyota, which is a sort of middle man distributor. And they usually load up in stock models with total rip off add ons like protection packages, pinstriping, wind deflectors, rental car policies, which can cost upwards of $2500! Most of the top line models we were looking at had all this crap on them. On the Hondas you basically have only two choices, plain and loaded and the you get a price break because of it. And no add ons, unless its dealer installed.

We ended up with the Ody and are loving every minute of it. Taken it to Ft. Worth and Austin and can't imagine a better road trip car. The Nav is especially noteworthy in ease of use. Its simply amazing. The Touring model is more like an Acura minivan than a Honda, its that luxurious. Either way you're a winner if you're chosing from those two. Good luck and keep us posted.

DJF1

Its funny how we now "need" so much space. When I grew up , our car was a Honda Accord and it was our family car ( 2 kids). We travelled all over and there was never an issue with luggage and all our stuff.
While my wife and I are working on our first kid, I cant imagine that we will need more than a nice sedan or a station wagon. I can see the practicality of the mini van though, so If you like it, then the Ody is a really nice one indeed. I just bought a land barge for my daily driver , a Mercedes E320, 1997 model with over 100K on the clock. The car was a bargain at 10grand in my book and it has sooo much space, I cant think why I would need more even with 2 kids. I've been driving this barge for the past 3 weeks and I can tell you that its solid as a rock, ultra smooth and quiet. I've been very impressed with it and mechanically is very solid. These things are Taxi's in Europe and they rack in the miles like its nothing. They are also "pre el-cheapo days" at Mercedes so the build quality is really phenomenal. I drive to work daily with it and I put about 80 miles daily. Its relatively ok on gas, ( average 26mpg so far). Again, this thing is built like a tank and I think safety wise, I'm doing much better than the average mini van or SUV. At the same time it feels like a $70000 dollar car as well with all the bells and whistles ( heated seats, power everything etc) , no squeeks, no rattles no nothing.
Just another thought...