jimbone

Yesterday I was driving my wife's 97 740i in "S" mode somewhat aggressively and the radiator hose blew, big hole in it. Last month we had a similar problem and just had the hoses and water pump replaced. I know that things happen (especially water pump in 7 series) and it could have been simply a bad hose, but it seems like we have more and more problems with BMW.
Between the two of us we've owned 6 BMW's from 84-01, from 3 to 5 to 7 to X5. Our 01 X5 interior build quality stunk, as everything has showing wearing and tear and/or falling off. Our current 7 series has interior trim on the A pillar falling off, paint on the plastic door pieces falling off, broken plastic radio controls, and other interior problems. It's been babied by us and the only prior owner (our cousin, who took it to the dealer for anything). And it's not only interior quality but mechanical and (well known) electrical problems. Our other BMW's (including a 98 328i) seemed to hold up a lot better and had nicer interiors.
It just seems to me the in the 80's/early 90's BMW was still focuing on quality and reputation and then they somewhat rode on their laurels, cut costs and maintained high prices. I know business is business, but it's hard earned money. I guess the same has been said about Mercedes. Perhaps we should buy new or under warranty, but my buddies 02 M3 has similar problems from the beginning. I love BMW, but my wife, who was a diehard BMW fan, said yesterday that she doesn't think she'll get another BMW and we'll move to the Japanese car market (never owned one). Does anyone else have similar experiences or opinions?

Thank God my 993 has been bulletproof on and off the track.

SCMomentum

'02 X5 4.4i proud owner. The only wear & tear issues I have is the handle on the driver's side door. The car has been damn near bulletproof for me. I love driving it.

Dave

pcar964

Similar experience, but not with BMW. But a Mercedes ML and a new VW Toureg my family does have experience with...

Many of he high-end cars these days are made like crap compared to the old ones, and there's no denying it.

We had an old 82 Mercedes 300 Diesel that was used as a camping, fishing, and towing vehicle - it had a hard life. The interior and exterior of that car with 300k+ miles looked almost new (literally) than our 2001 Mercedes ML with fewer than 40k miles. The interior of the ML is dingy, marked-up, plastic switches broken, center console covering coming apart, many plastic pieces scratched up - and oh yeah, it's taken care of much more carefully than the old Diesel was.

The Toureg with only 20k miles, where do I begin - it's been in the shop more times that I can count for stupid failing electronics (airbag, 4wd electronic differential, 02 sensor, ABS module). The interior, many of the plastic switches look like crap because the cheap black paint is chipping off. Especially on the steering wheel and radio controls. This car is also treated with kid gloves.

To hear that you've had similar experience with the new BMWs doesn't surprise me. These cars look great in the showroom, but wear out so quickly it's unforgivable. I can do more damage to the interior of that Toureg with my fingernail, than I could do to my old 82 Diesel with a sharp axe. They're just not built like they used to be. Cliche perhaps, but absolutely true.

I love hearing these sheep saying "it's a better car in every way, just look at all the standard features." or "It's progress."

Keep your progress.

Allen

I would tend to agree...the newer cars seem to have numerous small annoying problems that simply should not exist in a "high-end" German sedan. I have several friends who have all had problems from X5 door handle trim, hatch handle falling off, radio ***** falling off, radiators failing, blinker bulb sockets failing, speedo LED display failures, etc. I have an older '95 525i 6-speed with 205,000 miles...no major problems, and equally as important...none of the small/annoying problems that the newer BMWs seem all be plagued with.

beers4all

Just had the 05 330Xi in for some warranty work:
Moisture in headlight unit
LHS rocker panel came unfastened
warped front rotors
The car currently has 25,000 (highway) km's on it and drives beautifully but I'm a little suprised with some of the issues.
Just had a 04 Escalade - 60,000 km's and not a single issue - although it sipped slightly more fuel.

CP

Jimbone,

You've hit one of my pet peeves. I have owned BMWs from 1985. The last one being an E39 M5. I will NOT buy another BMW again. The mechanical components would last, but every electronic sensor, module, relay etc. would break incessantly. The bigger problem is that these cars are so complicated now, even trained techs can only guess from the fault codes what went wrong. No fix is assured. It eventually boiled down to a $280 diagnostic fee, change all suspect parts, and hope the problem goes away. Mechanical aptitude means nothing with these cars.

The newer models use electronics to control ALL running components: engine, brakes, transmissions, wind shield wiper, signal stalk, seat positions, HVAC.... You name it. There's plenty to break. I am very active on BMW boards and the sob stories are really scary. You need the patience of a pope and the wallet of Bill Gates to tolerate these cars. I see no joy in such ownership experience.

CP

viperbob

In the last 6 months, the 2000 740i has had pads and rotors, water pump, serpentine belts, alternator (the freaking thing is water cooled), battery (due to the alternator), radiator, hoses and coolant tank and sender, Bilstein HDs, front strut arms, 2 window regulators (that is all 4 within 1 year. I'm getting good at these and don't want to be), a projector for the light in the door handle, and the CCU controlled mixer for opening and closing the coolant to the heater core, and I still have a broken power lock to fix.

dcchen

from 2002- 2004, my BMW was in the shop 10+ times for various problems...door rattling, cd getting stuck, door trim falling off, sunroof jumping the rails, AC blowing on high all the time....no engine issues, but just small nagging annoying problems...luckly most of that was during the warranty period...now, i am on my own for repairs...its too bad they drive so well...otherwise i'd have to switch cars...is it worth it to have a car that drives that well but to have these problem or to get a japanese car with no issues but no soul either.....

Reynard38

In addition to the '97 "S" my wife and I also own a '04 Merz E500 wagon (hers) and a '84 Merz 300SD. The old Benz still sounds like a bank vault when you shut the door. It has 293,000 miles and runs like a (slow) clock. I paid $2500 for it and it is one of the best cars I have ever owned.
Her '04 is a nice ride, but the quality is not the same. Many flimsy plastic parts and WAY too much technology. I would love Merz to build a car again that was simple and solid. German cars used to have that sparse, teutonic feel to them (like the 993). Nowadays they are built to satisfy the technogeeks.

GratefulJED

You you REALLY want frustrating, try taking your problem to BMW NA. They reminded me of Charles Gurning as the govenor of Texas in that movie "Best Little Whorehouse in Texas". They will pass you around until you just pass out..

SCMomentum

Hmmmm...

I am debating purchasing the warranty extension from BMW (~$2500) which would take the car to 100k or so. At first, I thought it was kind of expensive but I know how much the "stealer" will charge for all the nickel and dime stuff that will likely occur (especially after reading these posts ). I already extended the maintenance package. Thoughts? Thanks.

Dave

leo993

I drive my 85 BMW every day. Car has been solid since I bought it new. Have had the clutch replaced 2 years ago. No engine work. After 20+ years there are some interior fixes that need to be done, but I love the car. My wife's 03 CLK 430 has been in the shop more times in 3 years than my 535I in 20 + years

993c2cab

Traded in my 2000 m5 for an Audi. Great car but the cel light was on every other week.

srf506

I've known several BMW owners who are now proud Lexus or Accura drivers and can't say enough good things about their "riceburners". One of the owners had a BMW 3-Series Convertible. The top leaked from the day it was delivered new from the factory. They replaced the top twice, but were never able to solve the issue. The other BMW had an electrical gremlin from the day of new delivery. The car would be running fine and would just shut down at any old random time and place. Even after driving around for about six weeks with a data logger hooked into the computer and the event happening about three times the dealer was never able to find the root cause and correct it. BMW actually bought that car back from them and supposedly shipped it off to somewhere to figure out what was wrong.

andrew911

Well, I've chimed in on this very topic on the 964 forum, as well as the BMW forums...and I agree 100% with what has been said. I have a 2000 540i 6-speed, and the car is excellent. It has 62K miles on it and I just replaced all 4 brakes and rotors, as well as the clutch, and the water pump went at 50K miles & was covered under warranty. Other than that it has been farily trouble free so far (coulpe of other nits and nats). The clutch is a weak point, and I've never burned through a clutch so fast, but besides that it has been a great car so far...just waiting for the radiator to blow, which will probably happen any day now that it's over 60K miles.

That said, the interior quality of the more recent generations of Mercedes and BMW's (inlcuding my 540) are not what they once were. The buttons and switches on my car were far surpassed in quality by my prior car- a 1998 Caddilac STS!

People talking about bank vault like build quality of the 1980's Mercedes, and the solid feel of the 1980's BMW's are not imagining anything. The old S and e-class benzes had several bolts that held on the door jam receiver alone! What a car! The BMW's and Mercedes up to about the early 1990's were cars that were bought to be owned for years and cherished for literally 100's of thousands of miles. The current ones are appliances, designed to be leased for 36 months and traded in.

We're happy with our '03 325xi and '00 540, and the next cars we'd look to buy are a used X5 to replace the 325 when we need the space, and a low-mileage M5 used from the same generation when my 540 is being replaced. None of the new BMW's do anything for me, and I'm sure the X5 replacement will be as bad as their other current cars by the time we're ready to get a bigger car than our 325.

My theory in all this is I think the only place for German companys to cut costs was in their build quality and quality of parts when they were forced to compete with Lexus (and Infinity). There were many people who said in 1990- "the S430 is a better car than the LS400, but do I really need to spend $66K on my car when I can get a car that's just as quiet and big for $36K?" Even though there were obvious plastic or "lighter" parts used in the Lexus, the "average" buyer of these cars didn't notice these things or didn't really care (not the way us car nuts do anyway) This caused the Germans to have to cut costs- they didn't decrease the high costs they pay to their labor force, so the only other place to cut costs was to make the 5-bolt door jam receivers into 2 screw plastic receivers, decrease the use of solid parts, etc etc. In essence, they copied Lexus (except the reliability wasn't replicated) It's a sad thing....the same general thing has happened with the post-993 911's by the way- nice cars, but not bulletproof- too "plasticy"