Bull

Do it! And go with Florida Bob...er, I mean ViperBob!

David R

My view is that many people fall into the trap of thinking that just because it's "RS" it must be better. Remember the RS and standard cars have a very different remit.

I've tried LWFs before and the only time they really work is driving absolutely flat out and the rest of the time they make a car more difficult to drive due to revs dropping too quickly and a lack of intertia at starts.

I replaced my clutch like for like. The C2/C4s don't have a heavy flywheel to begin with and they are much more responsive than most cars where the above swap may be of more relevance. The clutch itself is good for the power and unless you are adding seruious extra torque you'll never benefit from the RS setup (unless you enjoy the grabby and sharper nature of this setup!)

Remeber, just cos it's OEM doesn't mean it's rubbish and often well advertised forum mods often don't do what they are supposed to. There is a HUGE placebo effect following having your wallet lightened by several thousand pounds / dollars and any perceived gains turn out to be justifications for the money spent (ask me how I know this).

David. Ever thus the sceptic.

Porscheologist

Don't do it just because someone tells you to. The LWF has some performance advantages that have been mentioned before. It also has more disadvantages than most people realize. Porsche did NOT use a DMF just to annoy you. There is a reason and noise/vibration is not the only reason. The DMF also acts as a heatsink and helps to reduce clutch wear. The DMF with its greater mass actually helps your gas milage around town as once it is rotating it takes less fuel to keep it rotating at idle (inertia). It also helps to protect the entire transmission from shock loads. If you are racing your car or doing a lot of auto cross then it may be worth it. Like so many other mods it's a double edge sword. I get a real kick out of people constantly trying to out-engineer Porsche. In my opinion, for a daily driver Porsche made the right choice with the DMF.

Sooner

31lbs for DMF vs 11lbs for LWF is a considerable difference IMHO.

While it may be the placebo affect, I believe the LWF setup is actually a few hundred dollars cheaper than the DMF.

The decision comes down to personal choice & usage of the car.

David R

A big difference, true, but the OEM unit is not especially heavy per se and does not deaded the throttle response cf most other cars. The OEM setup is relatively free from mass effects and I would suggest that for 95% of users the OEM setup is an ideal compromise.

The same argument applied to any modification that costs a lot of money. Remember that if you are replacing a clutch you don't need to get a LWF, but to go RS clutch you do. Most people seem to go LWF and RS at clutch change time, and if you do this in preference to an OEM clutch swap and keep the original flywheel the costs are considerably more.

I'm being devils advocate to all those who have spend $$$$ / ££££ / Euro ++ on stuff and convinced themselves of an improvement whereas in fact the objective evidence is lacking and the reality may be a little different.

Very true, but I think most people over estimate their need for such a modification, read loads of apparently convincing online reviews and then end up with something that doesn't suit. For most it's too late once it's done...

TroyN

I figured I'd pipe up here, I had this done recently and have to say I didn't notice a huge difference in responsiveness. It does rev up and down noticeably faster, but I was expecting something closer to racecars, where the revs basically follow the throttle instantaneously. It is a little grabby, but very smooth. If you need a new clutch it's not a bad way to go, but otherwise I'd spend the money elsewhere (or not at all).

gst

i have the LWF and RS setup and but for daily use would rather have the DMF and standard clutch (provided that the DMF is in good working order). The noise would become annoying if one does a lot of stop go city driving, and the clutch engagement would require a bit more "skill" and concentration

jusafan

Hi Winsome,

Thought I'd chime in. I have a '95 c2. Just did the Andial MWF. I ordered it through Steve Weiner. I found the difference to be very noticable, especially in the lower gears. It very much changes the personality of the car. It seems to rev faster (of course, I haven't tested it or anything like that), a lot more responsive to the throttle. A lot of fun! As for the negatives, it is true that you get a little bit of gear noise. Not very loud, and not a big deal, but I can see why Porsche wanted to mask that with a DMF. If you think you might be concerned about that, you might want to hook up with someone who has this setup so you can listen. No stalling problems with the MWF. I also have Steve Weiner's chip, so that is supposed to help with avoiding stalling as well. I don't track my car. Just take it out into the hills to have fun a couple times a month. But to me, it was definitely a great mod. Very much worth it.

Good luck with your choice. You can't really go wrong, whether you go with the OEM setup or one of the LWF/MWF setups.

Cheers.

Chris

Bull

Aside from all who are trying to justify, rationalize, or sanctify their recent decisions....it all depends on the use of the car. If you are going to use the car on the street, then the compromises that Porsche built into the car in order to make such use safe and comfortable, you will make one choice....if you want to use the car on the track and improve its performance, you will make another choice.

viperbob

While I do like the LWF setup, there are also people that I have told need to stay with a stock flywheel. Your reasoning though is not totally accurate.

1) saves gas around town? Yes if in a perfect around town mode you were driving at a constant speed, then the inertial mass while help keep the vehicle moving. This was RUFs philosophy for the incredibly heavy wheels they produced for essentially Autobahn driving. If however you accelerate your vehicle, you first have to accelerate more recipricating mass on the engine, and therefore losing gas mileage. If we want to take it that far, then if you do not push in the clutch when you brake your will be using your brakes more to stop the momentum of the flywheel. Thereby reducing brake life.

2) The DMF absorbs shocks to the transmission through the flywheel as the clutch is a soild mass. The LWF does it my means of a sprung hub in the clutch disc as the flywheel is solid.

3) Heatsink? So a flywheel that holds heat or pulls it from the engine will help clutch life? How?

Come on now. I recommend people go with someone that has a LWF and decide for themselves. There are lots of daily drivers out there with LWFs. As are there folks on the track with DMFs.

Lorenfb

"The DMF absorbs shocks to the transmission through the flywheel as the clutch is a soild mass. The LWF does it my means of a sprung hub in the clutch disc as the flywheel is solid." - Viperbob -

But the DMF does it to a greater extent. The springs in the LWF do little, that's
why Porsche went with the added cost of the DMF.

"Heatsink? So a flywheel that holds heat or pulls it from the engine will help clutch life? How?" - Viperbob -

The DMF's greater surface area can help radiate/dissipate potentially more clutch
disc heat than the LWF.

Bottomline: Porsche just didn't "flip-a-coin" as some may imply!

viperbob

Come on Loren. To a greater extent? So now we are on amounts instead of as originally stated "It also helps to protect the entire transmission from shock loads". Did you ever drive a solid disc clutch? The springs in the hub do a lot to smooth the clutch engagement process. This is what I was trying to get across.

Where is the extra surface area in a DMF?

You are correct, they do not just flip a coin. They are taking the driving feeling out of the car. This is what they feel the general public wants. As they are also getting much better at planned obsolescense and building block replacements. Takes to long to fix a synchro, throw away gear box and get a new one.

viperbob

Sounds like a bad install James. Sometimes with the OBD1 '95s you need to make a small adjustment to the ISV valve to get a little more airflow through the idle circuit so that it does not stall. This can be completely corrected by a good shop.

Lorenfb

"They are taking the driving feeling out of the car." - Viperbob -

Please! Once the clutch pedal is out, it's all the same,
except for those that like to continually rev at a stop light.

"This is what they feel the general public wants." - Viperbob -

Sounds like Porsche needs a new Strategic Marketing Manager.

mborkow

i live in san francisco, and i have the lwf. it is a little trickier to control in tight parking lots or when you are perched on the top of a hill, but other than that i think it is pretty good. i don't know if i would have done it, but i needed a new clutch anyway, and the lwf is actually cheaper. the only "negative" might be the extra chatter at idle, but that doesn't bother me at all (though some passengers have asked if that was normal).