STAR57

Well... Its the hardest post that I ever had to type, I will need to get some guidance.
My "baby" had some slipping of the clutch, talked to my selected shop and they indicated that they would be ready to do the work.
I supplied the parts for the LWF RS clutch upgrade and all the extras for "while its out" work.
The shop was introduced to me as being ethical...I I still think so.

The job was a 16 hour job and I estimated 1 week in the shop, 3.5 weeks latter I went to pick it up and was told that one of the parts may have been the wrong part and the clutch is slipping and they need to remove engine and transmission again and open it up and see what part may have been wrong
Boy...am I pissed.
Here is the list of the parts that I gave to the shop;

964 102 239 31 OE Aftermarket (OEM) Flywheel
964 114 143 31 OE Aftermarket (OEM) Ring Gear
950 116 813 30 OE Aftermarket (OEM) Rel. Brg. Guide
996 11601530 Sachs (OEM) Clutch Disc
928 102 151 01 OE Aftermarket (OEM) Flywheel Bolt
900 067 020 02 OE Aftermarket (OEM) Pressure Plate Bolt
964 116 028 03 Sachs (OEM) Pressure Plate
931 102 111 00 SKF (OEM) Pilot Bearing
944 116 080 00 Sachs (OEM) Release Bearing
999.113.426.41 Rear Main Seal
950 116 237 12, Clutch Slave Cylinder
99311324501 SAI check valve
92860620301 Oil Pressure Sending Unit
fr5dtc Spark plugs
993-147-187-01 Power steering belt
930 602 134 00 Distributor belt
964-105-181-01 Camshaft Timing Chain Cover Gaskets For Left And Right Sides, 911 Carrera 2/4 (1989-98
993-105-135-02 Valve Cover Gasket, Lower, 2 Per Car, 911 Carrera/4 (1995-98),
993 105 193 00 chain case gaskets
964 105 140 01 chain case stud rings 18 total
964 105 177 03 chain tensioner gasket

Any help how to deal with this situation is apreciated by the experts....
I normally have a good sense of humor...but not now!!

JasonAndreas

Ask them if they had any trouble bolting the pressure plate to the flywheel? More than likely they mounted the clutch disc backwards (you used a GT3RS clutch disc but it doesn't matter, its basically the same as the 964RS clutch disc and also probably has the "transmission this side" silk screened onto the wrong side). The other probable cause would be an incorrect release bearing but your part number is correct (see image below showing the differences).

Excluding the realignment they shouldn't charge more than 6-8 hours if all they are doing is the clutch disc. If they only remove the transmission so you don't need a realignment than it should half that time.

The LWF release bearing is on the left and the regular is on the right. If you used the regular release bearing with the LWF than the pressure plate would always be pulled a little off the disc and you would have slippage.

chris walrod

Direct copy of the PM I sent 15 minutes ago:
"No sweat, but I am not sure what I can add since I would have to see the car.
Anyhow, the 996 11601530 Sachs (OEM) Clutch Disc sometimes is labeled incorrectly in that the 'gearbox side' label is on the wrong side of the disk, leaving the installer to install is backwards. BUT, in the past, this leads to the car not wanting to shift as the hub makes contact with the t/o bearing guide tube. After some research (this happened to a friend of mine), it seems as though Sachs uses this same disk in a BMW of some sort, which does require its installation just as its labeled.

The new clutch should not slip, especially with that parts list you posted. Other causes? Wrong t/o bearing, wrong t/o bearing guide tube, pp not seated all the way, starter ring gear installed backwards.

Please let me know what the 'mechanic' finds. I am always curious.

As far as labor, those hours seem legit, but the three weeks doesnt. Should be done in two days, at the most. Unless, of course, they are waiting for parts.

Has this shop forwarded you any other info?

Wish I could help more..."

JasonAndreas

I'm working on my photoshops skills.







Another rennlister installed his clutch backwards and had sparks shooting out of the bellhousing. I tried to mount it backwards (just to see) but I couldn't get the pressure plate to bolt down properly.

chris walrod

Yep, that one is one of those wrongly labeled. Thanks for posting pics Jason

viperbob

For one thing, you have the wrong PP bolts. The 900 067 020 02 is a fan clamp bolt that is an M8x50. The bolt called for is an M8x45 and is part number N 014 715 3. I am not sure if the shank is interfering with the threads in the flywheel, but it is a possibility.... This could account for the pressure plate not fully seating and the clutch slipping if this was happening.

Mike J

I would also replace some of the bushings/bearings if he goes back in there..its pretty cheap to do. I think these are the part numbers

999 201 365 00 Cross Shaft Bushing 1 pc
999 201 339 00 Cross Shaft Bushing 1 pc
999 113 418 40 Gasket for Cross Shaft 2 pcs
950 116 715 01 Fork Bushings 2 pcs

STAR57

The guys at the shop are very concerned about what may be the problem, they will do a tear down and we will look at everything in detail.
I apreciate all the feedback that has been given to me and all sugestions.
I will keep everyone informed of the outcome, I was told that I will have the car ready for Christmas...lets hope that it all, will work out.

STAR57

Mistery solved... The shop pulled the engine and tranny out, took it apart I got there as they were doing it.

Guess what...The Ring Gear was installed the wrong way.
I guess that, the shop will have to take the burden of the extra amout of work, as for the fri...ing stress that they put me trough, well thats another story.

My sincere thanks to all of you that contribuited to the analisys of the problem, last but not least to Viper Bob that took the time to email me directlly.

Owning a Porsche ....no substituition being a member of Rennlist ....Priceless !!

Merry Christmas to all

Frank

Felix

Not sure I understand how the ring gear affects the clutch...

chris walrod

The ring gear (RS LWF) is sandwiched between the flywheel and the PP. Due to its asymmetry, it needs to be installed correctly.

Glen

Chris and Jason, couple of tech studs!
Merry Christmas Guys!
G

STAR57

I will Post all the work as soon as I fing the F...ing invoice with all the additional parts that suposedlly went into it, I have no clue where I put it.
Anyway the labor was negotiated down a bit to 25 hours, did the rotors and also the Bilsteins HD's in the rear, SAI ports, SAI valves and a bit more stuff.
Will take a while to get used to the whinning noise of the LWF at around 2300RPM in 3rd gear....
Stalled it a few times, I will get the hang of it....eventually.

Merry Christmas to all
and a special thanks to Viper Bob

os993

Cheers - glad everything worked out!

FisterD

Sounds like you got some great work done to your car.
I'm not sure why you get a whinning noise at 2300 RPM in third. I generally don't drive at such low RPM. I usually stay above 3K in most normal driving conditions. I would think at 2300 RPM you are "lugging" the motor, which is not good for these motors.