Mark in Baltimore

I've done a search, but I want to hear it from you folks.

My 993 rarely ever gets driven in the winter, so I really have no experience with summer tires in the winter. I'm asking because I'm obsessing over what sort of tires to get for my '94 Miata. The stock tires are a whopping 185/60-14, but the car came with burned out 195/60-14 T1-S' that are slightly smaller in circumference than stock and aid in the car's off-the-line quickness. I recently bought a set of 195/60-14 tires, after mistakenly listening to the Tire Rack guy who said the larger circumference of the 195's would be barely felt over the 185/60's. Was he ever wrong. My once very zippy Miata turned into a slug and was downright dangerous when merging. I feel like I'm driving a cammy Saturn.

So, I bought a set of 185/60-14 all-season tires, but I just found out that the 195/55-14's are about 1% smaller than the 185/60-14's. This means I could regain the acceleration I had with the 195/55-14 T1-S' that I had, but it also means going to a summer tire that may not be suitable for cold conditions. (I'm not at all worried about snow since I have the Sequoia for frigid navigation.)

For you folks who have summer tires, how much of a liability are these tires in the winter? Slippery at all times? Treacherous only when very cold? Horrible in the wet and cold? I'm talking about cold temps below 40 degrees.

Thanks for any replies!

graham_mitchell

Summer tires are very poor in winter. The rubber seems to become hard and slippery due to the temperature alone. Add snow/add to the equation and it is dangerous.

I got caught out last year by the first snow of the year, on summer tires. I was with the car but away from home. The drive back was true white-knuckle material. Applying the brakes gently at 5mph saw the wheels lock up and the car sliding 10m.

In Sweden there's a law that winter tires must be fitted if the temperature is below 5'C (~40'F), and with good reason.

dhicks

Mark
I agree, summer performance tires are very poor in the winter...esp in the first 10 miles or so before they get any warmth into them (depending on how you drive!!!) I drove my 993 with pirellis until last weekend when the Bizzaks went on....I noticed....cold was a problem but not astromomical as long as you were prepared to reduce your corning speeds, in the cold and wet...U....G...L...Y...it was as though they just did not like the road...light snow....hello back end why are you trying to overtake me!!! Have fun!!!

Flying Finn

Summer tires in winter (if there's snow, ice etc.) are not poor, they suck.
They're called summer tires for a reason.

You might as well be driving on rims alone or something. No worth driving with them.
Been there, done that and yes, it's ton of fun if you have room to play with but if you actually need to stop, turn or whatever, they're orth nothing.

Get spikeless winter tyres, they're really good and even if you have lot of asphalt around, they work well.

Rob 97 993c2

I can not forget how many crashed cayanne's were in my shop for bodywork last winter after the first cold weekend - 3 cayanne's. All had slide off the road and into a tree or ditch b/c they were sold with summer tires and the owners thought they had a hi-tech SUV. My mechanic could not say enough how important tires are and that summer performance tires are dangerous in cold and a disaster even if just a dusting of snow

cabrio993

That is to prove that regardless of how high tech the car is, traction control, suspension geometry, etc, etc..at the end..it all comes down to less that 1 square feet of tire contact with the road.

Ray Calvo

Use summer tires on the 993 year-round; no problems with winter grip. Then again, 993 doesn't come out of the garage unless roads are absolutely dry. Then , have not noticed any problems with summer tires in below freezing temps.

Daily drivers get 4 snow tires thrown on in early December. We have too many hills around here and lots of winter snow.

TD in DC

Mark,

I would go for winter tires if I were you. Forget dry or wet. The real issue is that the rubber compound of summer tires is designed for temperatures of 40 degrees or higher. Below that, they are too hard and not sticky. The worst part about this is that it changes the driving characteristics of the tires tremendously. Specifically, the tire you love so much in the summer because it starts to let go so predictably and with plenty of warning (hhhhhoooowwwwllllll) suddenly starts driving like cold Michelin Pilot Sport Cups on a 2,000 lb car on a cold day in the rain: no warning, just a snap and you are around. You may never notice this. However, learning how bad it is when some idiot cuts you off on the beltway is not ideal.

Winter tires generally are much better. That said, I just installed new Pirelli Wintersports on my 996, and I am NOT impressed so far. I have been into the ABS more during the past two weeks, including this morning, than I have since I started driving. I am hoping they just need to get broken in.

TD

Traffic53

dunlop winter sport m3. had them on honda s2000, volvo v70r, audi s6 and now the porsche. they're really good in the dry, and much better than you'd expect in the snow.

Avenger6

I have to echo this! The family truckster ('03 Montero) came with some ****ty Bridgestone "all season" tires. I drove it the first winter on those, and it was scary, even with 4WD, traction control and stability controls. I got some Pirelli winter tires after that, and it was night and day! "M+S" and "All season" suck almost as bad a summer tires in real winter conditions.

I will get winter tires for the 993 when I am in Germany starting next year. Though I will have some kind of bad weather car, I will still want to take the 993 out occasionally in winter. I'd hate to get stuck being far from home if bad weater comes up. Plus, as Graham said, it is required in pretty much all of the Eurozone contries. Insurance can and will completely deny claims if wrong tires are on the car.

Real winter tires, even on sports cars, make a huge difference!

TomF

The 911 is a great car in the snow with the RIGHT tires.

I got caught in a freak blizzard in Eastern Washington a couple of years ago with S02s on my 993... it was positively terrifying. The car was totally unpredictable and very unsafe. I had so little traction that a sudden strong gust of wind would nearly push me into the next lane. I will never do that again.

NoSubEDU

Coming from an Audi with quattro...awd/2wd, in the snow, it means nothing...unless you have the tires to exploit it.

I've seen M3's have better traction than my S4...gratned, they had winter tires and I was on summer tires. The compound makes all the difference.

Living in RDU I don't really get the temps or the accumulation that warrants a set of dedicated winter tires...A/S tires would be a better option, but I seem to do just fine with Summer tires and a little dose of sense when I drive.

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks for the feedback, guys! I know that the proper snow tires can transform a car and, although I really appreciate the info on snow experiences, I'm most interested in how summer tires perform in cold conditions. It seems that Ray is the only semi-proponent of summer tires in the winter.

Greg Fishman

Mark,
If you take normal precautions and don't drive like an idiot you won't have any problem. Normal precautions meaning, no snow/ice driving and not pushing the car really hard around corners until the tires are warm, etc . It is not like you are going to crash the car just because you have summer tires on the car.

NoSubEDU

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