Gearing up for the big dance- last few questions
#16
Three Wheelin'
Leland, here is the ref from Porsche for the grease: 000 043 024 00 "Hoechstdruckfett" which means heavy duty grease.
About the guide tube, sorry I don't remember if it's lubed! I think not. but please get confirmation for that.
About the guide tube, sorry I don't remember if it's lubed! I think not. but please get confirmation for that.
#17
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by Leland Pate
I thought I read somewhere that the guide tude does not get lubed???
#18
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Please do, Jason.
I purchased the kit from Steve Weiner. I'm at work so I don't have parts in hand, but I don't recall any plastic on the TO bearing or the guide tube. So, I guess it'd make sense to lube the parts that may come into contact with each other.
I purchased the kit from Steve Weiner. I'm at work so I don't have parts in hand, but I don't recall any plastic on the TO bearing or the guide tube. So, I guess it'd make sense to lube the parts that may come into contact with each other.
#19
Technical Guru
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In the first image below (OE) the red arrow is pointing to the polyamide (slitted) insert. The inside diameter of the OE release bearing is 32mm, the matching guide tube should have an outside diamer of 31.8mm (there is no plastic around the guide tube only on the release bearing). The inside diameter of an OEM Sachs release bearing (second image) will measure 34mm and the matching guide tube should be 33.8mm.
Now I'm curious to find out just how much of the LWF idle chatter is caused by a mismatched (undersized by 2mm) guide tube and release bearing. I haven't been able to find an OEM aftermarket guide tube supplier only OE so they might all be 31.8mm?
Leland,
Look for a P symbol surrounded by a triangle on the release bearing. The LWF release bearing I have is OEM (no plastic) and the DMF release bearing I have is OE (with plastic insert). What we need to find is an OE LWF release bearing and check if it has a plastic insert. If it does than we both need to get one. The materials (and the spacing) used are the same so the corrosion/welding/seizing problem would happen no matter what so I can't understand why Porsche would have switched to using the polyamide insert after March 30, 1993 but only for the DMF (as I've been told) and not the LWF. This wouldn't be the first time that the OEM part didn't match the OE version.
Now I'm curious to find out just how much of the LWF idle chatter is caused by a mismatched (undersized by 2mm) guide tube and release bearing. I haven't been able to find an OEM aftermarket guide tube supplier only OE so they might all be 31.8mm?
Leland,
Look for a P symbol surrounded by a triangle on the release bearing. The LWF release bearing I have is OEM (no plastic) and the DMF release bearing I have is OE (with plastic insert). What we need to find is an OE LWF release bearing and check if it has a plastic insert. If it does than we both need to get one. The materials (and the spacing) used are the same so the corrosion/welding/seizing problem would happen no matter what so I can't understand why Porsche would have switched to using the polyamide insert after March 30, 1993 but only for the DMF (as I've been told) and not the LWF. This wouldn't be the first time that the OEM part didn't match the OE version.
Last edited by JasonAndreas; 10-24-2005 at 07:52 PM.
#20
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Jason,
I went out and looked at my release bearing and guide tube and am positive I have the right setup. There is about .2mm worth of play between the two. I never doubted I had the right parts because Mr. Weiner just wouldn't send mis-matched parts.
The Sachs LWF release bearing is identical to the one in the second picture. No Polyamide bushing. This is why one must ensure they get the RS guide shaft with their kit.
I am just wondering if it is required to be lubed with Olista Longtime. It must because there is no Polyamide insert to lubricate the surfaces.
This is just another good reason why people need to purchase a kit from a reputable source. having 2mm worth of play in there cannot be a good thing.
Also, from what I've been told, the RS LWF doesn't actually create more noise than the DMF, but rather the DMF dampens the gear lash noise that is always present. The 12 lb. wheel just transmits the noise created by the gears more.
Thanks so much for the assistance.
I went out and looked at my release bearing and guide tube and am positive I have the right setup. There is about .2mm worth of play between the two. I never doubted I had the right parts because Mr. Weiner just wouldn't send mis-matched parts.
The Sachs LWF release bearing is identical to the one in the second picture. No Polyamide bushing. This is why one must ensure they get the RS guide shaft with their kit.
I am just wondering if it is required to be lubed with Olista Longtime. It must because there is no Polyamide insert to lubricate the surfaces.
This is just another good reason why people need to purchase a kit from a reputable source. having 2mm worth of play in there cannot be a good thing.
Also, from what I've been told, the RS LWF doesn't actually create more noise than the DMF, but rather the DMF dampens the gear lash noise that is always present. The 12 lb. wheel just transmits the noise created by the gears more.
Thanks so much for the assistance.
#21
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Leland Pate
This is why one must ensure they get the RS guide shaft with their kit.
Originally Posted by Leland Pate
I am just wondering if it is required to be lubed with Olista Longtime. It must because there is no Polyamide insert to lubricate the surfaces.
Just curious, what is the part number of your pressure plate?
#22
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I think I see what you are saying, jason. So, I can have an RS guide tube. But I need to know if it is a OE guide tube or an OEM guide tube.
Unfortunately, i threw away the box and there is no p/n stamped on the guide tube.
I can only assume S.W. sent me the OEM guide tube to go with the OEM Sachs release bearing.
Here are some pictures:
Unfortunately, i threw away the box and there is no p/n stamped on the guide tube.
I can only assume S.W. sent me the OEM guide tube to go with the OEM Sachs release bearing.
Here are some pictures:
#24
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
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I compared your pressure plate to mine and it looks like you have the stock 964 unit. People have been mistakenly using them on 993s for ages thinking they are an upgrade but you're better off installing the stronger 993 plate. Otherwise your just taking a step backwards...
#25
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
In the first image below (OE) the red arrow is pointing to the polyamide (slitted) insert. The inside diameter of the OE release bearing is 32mm, the matching guide tube should have an outside diamer of 31.8mm (there is no plastic around the guide tube only on the release bearing). The inside diameter of an OEM Sachs release bearing (second image) will measure 34mm and the matching guide tube should be 33.8mm.
Now I'm curious to find out just how much of the LWF idle chatter is caused by a mismatched (undersized by 2mm) guide tube and release bearing. I haven't been able to find an OEM aftermarket guide tube supplier only OE so they might all be 31.8mm?
Leland,
Look for a P symbol surrounded by a triangle on the release bearing. The LWF release bearing I have is OEM (no plastic) and the DMF release bearing I have is OE (with plastic insert). What we need to find is an OE LWF release bearing and check if it has a plastic insert. If it does than we both need to get one. The materials (and the spacing) used are the same so the corrosion/welding/seizing problem would happen no matter what so I can't understand why Porsche would have switched to using the polyamide insert after March 30, 1993 but only for the DMF (as I've been told) and not the LWF. This wouldn't be the first time that the OEM part didn't match the OE version.
Now I'm curious to find out just how much of the LWF idle chatter is caused by a mismatched (undersized by 2mm) guide tube and release bearing. I haven't been able to find an OEM aftermarket guide tube supplier only OE so they might all be 31.8mm?
Leland,
Look for a P symbol surrounded by a triangle on the release bearing. The LWF release bearing I have is OEM (no plastic) and the DMF release bearing I have is OE (with plastic insert). What we need to find is an OE LWF release bearing and check if it has a plastic insert. If it does than we both need to get one. The materials (and the spacing) used are the same so the corrosion/welding/seizing problem would happen no matter what so I can't understand why Porsche would have switched to using the polyamide insert after March 30, 1993 but only for the DMF (as I've been told) and not the LWF. This wouldn't be the first time that the OEM part didn't match the OE version.
Regarding the 2 T/O bearings pictured, my replacement had the "crooked line" as does the OE part. Does this mean I did right in NOT lubricating the guide tube? I don't recall what material lined the inside of the T/O bearing if any. Just know that gap or line is there.
Hopefully I don't have to pull it apart.
While I'm here, I have a shop manual but cannot find the torque value for engine to trans nuts. They hide this stuff pretty well.
Anyone have this handy?
#26
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by MarkD
Regarding the 2 T/O bearings pictured, my replacement had the "crooked line" as does the OE part. Does this mean I did right in NOT lubricating the guide tube? I don't recall what material lined the inside of the T/O bearing if any. Just know that gap or line is there.
Originally Posted by MarkD
While I'm here, I have a shop manual but cannot find the torque value for engine to trans nuts. They hide this stuff pretty well.
Anyone have this handy?
Anyone have this handy?
Transmission housing to engine (M10) 45 Nm (33 ft-lb)
#27
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
In a 1993 TSB for the updated release bearing Porsche recommended that you no longer lube the guide tube with 3EP but two shops I spoke with claim they still do. And for the first two years of production of the 996, Porsche was installing that guide tube (for a different style release bearing) dry but in 2000 they started using Optimoly MPO (Porsche part no. #999-917-788-00). 996TT and GT3 owners have complained of similar squeaks and dealers have also been lubing that guide tube (same as on the 964/993) with MPO.
Starter to transmission housing (M10) 40 Nm (30 ft-lb)
Transmission housing to engine (M10) 45 Nm (33 ft-lb)
Starter to transmission housing (M10) 40 Nm (30 ft-lb)
Transmission housing to engine (M10) 45 Nm (33 ft-lb)
So, it looks like it would be good to pull it all apart again, get yet another "special" grease and lube it. Grr...
Thanks for the torque specs!
#28
Technical Guru
Rennlist Member
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Originally Posted by MarkD
So, it looks like it would be good to... get yet another "special" grease and lube it.
#29
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by JasonAndreas
If you already have Olista Longtime 3EP I'm not sure I would bother purchasing the MPO lube just for your dualmass flywheel guide tube. 3EP is compatible with polyamide (nylon) its just that MPO might be more compatible with a plastic-to-metal interface?
Seems odd the OE setup did not squeak, even after 100K miles. Oh well, practice makes perfect.
#30
Race Director
I truely like it when old threads are brought back, it gives everyone a chance to update it and maybe fill in a blank or 2.... I don't have a lot to contribute but maybe this will help future searchers.
I did have to re-gap several of my Bosch trips, I use Bosch's standard "L" shaped wire gapper tool. I got mine from Pelican. My new plugs ranged from about .5 to >.9. I would highly recommend checking them.
I went to the dealer a couple of months ago for a spare can of PS fluid, they showed me a tech bulletin from Porsche that changes the recommended PS fluid to Pentosin CHF 202.
Originally Posted by Leland Pate
My maintenance kit came with new Bosch triple electrode plugs. I've heard these are "pre-gapped" at the factory to .7mm. I'd like to double check, but because there are three electrodes converging on the insulator, I'm not sure how best to check the gaps.:
Originally Posted by Leland Pate
I also did a search on power steering fluids and the differences between Pentosin and Dextron. I checked my fluid and it looks to be a light peach color. I'm assuming it was filled with Dextron. For those wondering where you can get the Pentosin CHF 11S, I found some at Pelican Parts (and much cheaper to boot) at $19.00 a litre.: