True Enthusiasts - no longer needed
10-01-2005, 01:09 AM
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True Enthusiasts - no longer needed
I was talking to a friend of mine at the local Porsche dealer today (Champion in Pompano), and confirmed something for me that I guess most of us already know... that Porsche is no longer a brand for enthusiasts, but instead is a brand for status-seeking yuppies (literally).
I'm not starting an argument here trying to bash new Pcar owners, I'm just repeating information that you all might find interesting...
According to internal market research by PCNA, (this is for North American market, he didn't know what the statistics are for other markets), the motivation of new Porsche buyers has changed SUBSTANTIALLY since 1996. Apparently, PCNA wanted to separate their most important market (USA) to examine "purchase motivation" and intended use of their cars. There were 3 main categories a buyer would fall under: Enthusiast, Status Seeker, and Utilitarian. I'm sure there were sub-categories, but he was telling me this off the top of his head, he didn't have a report in front of him or anything...
In 1996, over 50% of new Pcar buyers fell under the category of "enthusiast" according to their research. The rest were mostly "status seekers" with a small percentage falling under "utilitarian."
In 2002, only 6% of new Pcar buyers fell under PCNA's "enthusiast" category, over 80% were "status seeker" and the rest were "utilitarian" He said he couldn't remember the last time someone walked into the showroom and knew "Porsche" was a two-syllable word...
I don't know this guy too well, although he's a self-proclaimed Pcar enthusiast and a nice guy - I've talked to him every time I've been to the dealership, but I guess I wouldn't call him a "friend" really... The point is, I guess now that we're only 6% of Porsche's target market, why should we expect that they will cater to our tastes in the future? Every step Porsche has taken since 1998 is more proof of this.
I don't know what criteria PCNA's Market Study used for defining someone as "enthusiast," but 6% is almost not worth mentioning! So for anyone under the impression that Porsche is still a company focused on making cars for the enthusiast, think again. I don't think we're very important to Porsche anymore...
I'm not starting an argument here trying to bash new Pcar owners, I'm just repeating information that you all might find interesting...
According to internal market research by PCNA, (this is for North American market, he didn't know what the statistics are for other markets), the motivation of new Porsche buyers has changed SUBSTANTIALLY since 1996. Apparently, PCNA wanted to separate their most important market (USA) to examine "purchase motivation" and intended use of their cars. There were 3 main categories a buyer would fall under: Enthusiast, Status Seeker, and Utilitarian. I'm sure there were sub-categories, but he was telling me this off the top of his head, he didn't have a report in front of him or anything...
In 1996, over 50% of new Pcar buyers fell under the category of "enthusiast" according to their research. The rest were mostly "status seekers" with a small percentage falling under "utilitarian."
In 2002, only 6% of new Pcar buyers fell under PCNA's "enthusiast" category, over 80% were "status seeker" and the rest were "utilitarian" He said he couldn't remember the last time someone walked into the showroom and knew "Porsche" was a two-syllable word...
I don't know this guy too well, although he's a self-proclaimed Pcar enthusiast and a nice guy - I've talked to him every time I've been to the dealership, but I guess I wouldn't call him a "friend" really... The point is, I guess now that we're only 6% of Porsche's target market, why should we expect that they will cater to our tastes in the future? Every step Porsche has taken since 1998 is more proof of this.
I don't know what criteria PCNA's Market Study used for defining someone as "enthusiast," but 6% is almost not worth mentioning! So for anyone under the impression that Porsche is still a company focused on making cars for the enthusiast, think again. I don't think we're very important to Porsche anymore...
10-01-2005, 01:30 AM
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I guess I don't know any of the 80%.
10-01-2005, 01:39 AM
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That's like saying " why don't they build them like they use to"
Us (you and me) need to remember they are a company out for a profit and to keep the name they have established over the years for the racing heritage and quality we've come to know. They have to pursue to newest tech., building operations they come across and still meet the demands of the new & faithful (enthusiasts) buyers. They are fighting for market share and much more we don't see.
So next year when you see a Caymen dual fuel rollin by............. don't be dicouraged
Us old gaurd have to keep the faith!
Us (you and me) need to remember they are a company out for a profit and to keep the name they have established over the years for the racing heritage and quality we've come to know. They have to pursue to newest tech., building operations they come across and still meet the demands of the new & faithful (enthusiasts) buyers. They are fighting for market share and much more we don't see.
So next year when you see a Caymen dual fuel rollin by............. don't be dicouraged
Us old gaurd have to keep the faith!
10-01-2005, 01:44 AM
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By coincidence today I test drove an '02 996 my son was interested in. Although he has about 1K miles and 5 days of seat time in my car on fun roads in Idaho and Montana, I can honestly only classify him as half enthusiast and half status seeker. I can't blame him. He has worked his tail off the last 8 years starting a company and would like to smell the roses. He just wants to buy the newest Porsche he can afford. Thankfully, the deal fell apart for reasons I can't explain here, and I have time to bring him back from the dark side.
10-01-2005, 01:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick Sylvestri
That's like saying " why don't they build them like they use to"
Us (you and me) need to remember they are a company out for a profit and to keep the name they have established over the years for the racing heritage and quality we've come to know. They have to pursue to newest tech., building operations they come across and still meet the demands of the new & faithful (enthusiasts) buyers. They are fighting for market share and much more we don't see.
So next year when you see a Caymen dual fuel rollin by............. don't be dicouraged
Us old gaurd have to keep the faith!
Us (you and me) need to remember they are a company out for a profit and to keep the name they have established over the years for the racing heritage and quality we've come to know. They have to pursue to newest tech., building operations they come across and still meet the demands of the new & faithful (enthusiasts) buyers. They are fighting for market share and much more we don't see.
So next year when you see a Caymen dual fuel rollin by............. don't be dicouraged
Us old gaurd have to keep the faith!
But that doesn't make it any easier for us old-school enthusiasts to watch the company change the way it has... I guess I'm just frustrated, and also amazed that so many people are shallow and pretentious enough to buy a car for status. Obviously pretentiousness has been around forever, but I guess it's even more prevalent in our ultra image-conscious society. Sad.
10-01-2005, 02:40 AM
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Some years ago, only 40% of Porsches revenue was from automotive business. Porsche, at least a few decades ago, was primarily an engineering firm designing hydroelectric plants and other rather large industrial installations. Not sure what that percentage is today, however.
Porsche, these days, is pretty smug when it comes to gloating about profits from car sales. I feel they continue to rest on their laurels a little too much..
Porsche, these days, is pretty smug when it comes to gloating about profits from car sales. I feel they continue to rest on their laurels a little too much..
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10-01-2005, 02:44 AM
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Are you kidding? That's utter BS. A new Porsche 911 is north of $80K. Even if you're the most diehard "enthusiast" (whatever that means), you are buying more than just a car. Hell yes its a statement. What's wrong with that? Why would it be shallow? I hate it when people critizise someone just because they can afford a more expensive car.
Hate to break this to you, but Porsche is also building some fabulous performing 911's right now. Drive the 997 and you'll be amazed how far Porsche has come to perfecting the 911. Its not like they are badging crap cars with Porsche emblems and duping the shallow yuppies into buying junk cars. The current 911 is a world class performing car.
Hate to break this to you, but Porsche is also building some fabulous performing 911's right now. Drive the 997 and you'll be amazed how far Porsche has come to perfecting the 911. Its not like they are badging crap cars with Porsche emblems and duping the shallow yuppies into buying junk cars. The current 911 is a world class performing car.
10-01-2005, 02:56 AM
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I think you have to take into account the Boxster and Cayenne lines -- back in 1996 the only Porsche available was the iconic 911. I bet that if those surveys were targeted at just the buyers of 911s you would see more encouraging numbers.
It could also be that some enthusiasts desiring the 'last true 911' bought used 993s instead of the new 996s that were available in 2002.
It could also be that some enthusiasts desiring the 'last true 911' bought used 993s instead of the new 996s that were available in 2002.
10-01-2005, 03:08 AM
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Give them time. As they drive the cars they can become infected with the Porsche bug and their love of the brand will grow. If not there will be some good deals on cars in the future.
After going to Monterey this year for the historic Car Races I feel that most Ferrari and 99% of the Lambo owners are using the car for status or, I am sorry to say, get laid.
As for new Porsche enthusiasts I might have created a monster. The wife was passively interested in P-Cars and I borrowed the old man's 996 for a weekend. The next thing I know she is pushing us into looking at and buying a 993.
When she drives it a HUGE smile is plastered on her face and that makes me happy.
She now feels that there are two types of Porsche owners, us, true believers, and possers who are not worth a cup of warm beer.
After going to Monterey this year for the historic Car Races I feel that most Ferrari and 99% of the Lambo owners are using the car for status or, I am sorry to say, get laid.
As for new Porsche enthusiasts I might have created a monster. The wife was passively interested in P-Cars and I borrowed the old man's 996 for a weekend. The next thing I know she is pushing us into looking at and buying a 993.
When she drives it a HUGE smile is plastered on her face and that makes me happy.
She now feels that there are two types of Porsche owners, us, true believers, and possers who are not worth a cup of warm beer.
10-01-2005, 03:26 AM
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sure, some ppl buys porsche for looks, some for status, some for performance. i thikn they are all ENTHUSIASTS.
some look down on water pumpers, but frankly, i have had every 911 from SC on ward. each successive one is BETTER than before and every generation of 911's have some "weird" prob. but they are all good cars.
so i don't see what's the prob that porsche is making large profits. why not? if you have been a loyal porsche customer, you would not believe how well they treat you with warranty. i drive the wheels of my cars on track and blown motor, bad synchro, wierd tanny, dead cat, even wheel bearings were all replaced under warranty with no question asked. and i bring my car in with 6 point roll bar (not the tiny tequipment bar), harness, r compunds, race seats, etc. they don't even blink an eye.
some look down on water pumpers, but frankly, i have had every 911 from SC on ward. each successive one is BETTER than before and every generation of 911's have some "weird" prob. but they are all good cars.
so i don't see what's the prob that porsche is making large profits. why not? if you have been a loyal porsche customer, you would not believe how well they treat you with warranty. i drive the wheels of my cars on track and blown motor, bad synchro, wierd tanny, dead cat, even wheel bearings were all replaced under warranty with no question asked. and i bring my car in with 6 point roll bar (not the tiny tequipment bar), harness, r compunds, race seats, etc. they don't even blink an eye.
10-01-2005, 06:08 AM
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What is the definition of "enthusiast"?
One thing I am convinced about: there have always been these and those kinds of Porsche drivers. There is nothing wrong that some just want to sunbathe in the shine of the logo.
That's why Porsche offers a more and more differentiated product line.
Felix
One thing I am convinced about: there have always been these and those kinds of Porsche drivers. There is nothing wrong that some just want to sunbathe in the shine of the logo.
That's why Porsche offers a more and more differentiated product line.
Felix
10-01-2005, 07:19 AM
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IMHO there is a glimmer of hope for the future as the company returns to active racing with its new LMP car for ALMS. Will this help create more enthusiasts or is the old saying, "race on Sunday, sell on Monday" no longer a valid method of marketing these cars? Not sure if it has helped Audi but it sure hasn't seemed to have hurt them either.
10-01-2005, 09:29 AM
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This one Is a picky thread indeed . !! I can tell you for sure the following ....
* A good percent of new owners have no idea on porsche history .. some even dont know the VW bettle was a porsche granpa desing ... !! (Incredable). Some even dont care ...
* Nowdays, Is more a matter of status than anything else to own a P.
* Porsche should participate more , as a sport car manufacturer, in high performance race, shows, exhibitions, perhaps even in F1 ... Anyone has visited the Ferrari Museum at Maranello , Italy .. ? It is amazing .. ! I felt jealous .. !!! (by the way, Ferrari never has been a profitable business ... )
* Porsche is trying to buy 25% of VW currently.
Nothing of above is bad or illegal or inmoral of course .. !
I know is a business oriented company, what else ... but be sure WE ARE ,probably, more ENTHUSIAST to Porsche, than the own factory owners. This forum is a life- proof of the above.
A Porsche Company seeking more and more business is ok, but they should remember we ,
the fans-to-the core of the brand , has a BIG percent of their current success. How many times you have recommended to a friend to get one of these beauties ... ?? Porsche owners are the most loyal guys i ever see .. !! excuse my broken english. ELOY
* A good percent of new owners have no idea on porsche history .. some even dont know the VW bettle was a porsche granpa desing ... !! (Incredable). Some even dont care ...
* Nowdays, Is more a matter of status than anything else to own a P.
* Porsche should participate more , as a sport car manufacturer, in high performance race, shows, exhibitions, perhaps even in F1 ... Anyone has visited the Ferrari Museum at Maranello , Italy .. ? It is amazing .. ! I felt jealous .. !!! (by the way, Ferrari never has been a profitable business ... )
* Porsche is trying to buy 25% of VW currently.
Nothing of above is bad or illegal or inmoral of course .. !
I know is a business oriented company, what else ... but be sure WE ARE ,probably, more ENTHUSIAST to Porsche, than the own factory owners. This forum is a life- proof of the above.
A Porsche Company seeking more and more business is ok, but they should remember we ,
the fans-to-the core of the brand , has a BIG percent of their current success. How many times you have recommended to a friend to get one of these beauties ... ?? Porsche owners are the most loyal guys i ever see .. !! excuse my broken english. ELOY
10-01-2005, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by cowtown
As long as I get my lightly used yuppie-pre-owned 997S in five or six years, everything will be okay.
