Pics from So Cal HID Install - Thanks Guys!
08-16-2005, 04:12 AM
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Just to add...
Like Bobby has said, the HID install has probably been well documented already... but if anyone needs specific shots, PM me an email address and I'll search trhoughg the photo's & shoot em out... just been busier than heck since Saturday to do anything with them (and sincere apologies to Alan, it seems a shame not to show your "shots")
Man, that day was seriously GREAT fun.... and so many cabs in all the pretty colors! Andy felt like the odd man out!
Great bunch of guys. I had a blast!
Chuck, you have a garage space most men can only dream of - and the mufflers - Oh! what a wake up call!
Alan, Hope the air-con can get resolved soon. Maybe I can help out again?
Andy, Email me about the mufflers... there has to be an easy way to get something that works out.
Dave, That car of yours needs to be in daylight more.... the black fades to gray! Oh, and I see hood shocks on your horizon
Bobby, Hope that airbag disable works ok?
Fred, It was cool to meet you... looking forward to the Autofest trip.
Here's a butt shot...just to round off..
Like Bobby has said, the HID install has probably been well documented already... but if anyone needs specific shots, PM me an email address and I'll search trhoughg the photo's & shoot em out... just been busier than heck since Saturday to do anything with them (and sincere apologies to Alan, it seems a shame not to show your "shots")
Man, that day was seriously GREAT fun.... and so many cabs in all the pretty colors! Andy felt like the odd man out!
Great bunch of guys. I had a blast!
Chuck, you have a garage space most men can only dream of - and the mufflers - Oh! what a wake up call!
Alan, Hope the air-con can get resolved soon. Maybe I can help out again?
Andy, Email me about the mufflers... there has to be an easy way to get something that works out.
Dave, That car of yours needs to be in daylight more.... the black fades to gray! Oh, and I see hood shocks on your horizon
Bobby, Hope that airbag disable works ok?
Fred, It was cool to meet you... looking forward to the Autofest trip.
Here's a butt shot...just to round off..
08-16-2005, 11:54 AM
#17
Hi Clive,
Been wondering where you have been, was almost gettin worried.
You are correct, there are many install pictures already. Plenty to refer to for any DIY'er. And thanks but they were just point and shoot pics, no big deal.
Thanks again for your great help in diagnosing my AC problem. I am going to do the CCU clean, hopefully, today. It's been so cool that I haven't had a chance to see if your 'cleaning of the contact points" has helped at all.
Lookin forward to seeing you for Autofest, thanks again.
Been wondering where you have been, was almost gettin worried.
You are correct, there are many install pictures already. Plenty to refer to for any DIY'er. And thanks but they were just point and shoot pics, no big deal.
Thanks again for your great help in diagnosing my AC problem. I am going to do the CCU clean, hopefully, today. It's been so cool that I haven't had a chance to see if your 'cleaning of the contact points" has helped at all.
Lookin forward to seeing you for Autofest, thanks again.
08-17-2005, 05:46 PM
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Here's some more info relating to the HID install we just completed. Prior to the install I was looking for ways to upgrade the high beam light also and was looking at Silverstars vs PIAA xtra bulbs but in researching on google turned up an interesting site: danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good.html
on this he describes the difference between improved light out put (good) and merely making your lights look blue (bad) and he also explains why many blue coated bulbs have much shorter service lives-Sylvania sivlerstars included. Bottom line it seems that OSRAM silversatrs are the way to go. These bulbs are made by the parent company of Sylvania and give the most light output at the stock 55w spec. The bulbs are clear so the light color is white and the filaments should last as long as normal halogens. I will be installing these when they arrive and will post my (subjective) results. I also had good results with removal of hazing/pitting on my lenses by using a glass polishing system I got from Caswell inc. it includes a felt bob and polishing compound-great for taking out minor defects or in conjunction with wet sanding at 300 and 600 grit for major gouges/chips. Looking forward to more pics from either Clive or Alan! Thanks again to all for the great get together-this is truly a great community
on this he describes the difference between improved light out put (good) and merely making your lights look blue (bad) and he also explains why many blue coated bulbs have much shorter service lives-Sylvania sivlerstars included. Bottom line it seems that OSRAM silversatrs are the way to go. These bulbs are made by the parent company of Sylvania and give the most light output at the stock 55w spec. The bulbs are clear so the light color is white and the filaments should last as long as normal halogens. I will be installing these when they arrive and will post my (subjective) results. I also had good results with removal of hazing/pitting on my lenses by using a glass polishing system I got from Caswell inc. it includes a felt bob and polishing compound-great for taking out minor defects or in conjunction with wet sanding at 300 and 600 grit for major gouges/chips. Looking forward to more pics from either Clive or Alan! Thanks again to all for the great get together-this is truly a great community
Last edited by dpkoby; 08-17-2005 at 07:44 PM.
08-17-2005, 07:40 PM
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Alan,
you can get glass pits out but you need to wet sand with 320 then 600 grit waterproof sandpaper if they are more than mild surface defects. I used this on my watch crystal and got some severe gouges corrected and the crystal looks brand new. I've oredere the OSRAM bulbs so maybe will have results of the high beam upgrades in the next week. Take a look at Daniel Stern's site it provides an illuminating set of information.
Dave
looks like I made a typo on the web site. It should read:
danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good/good.html
you can get glass pits out but you need to wet sand with 320 then 600 grit waterproof sandpaper if they are more than mild surface defects. I used this on my watch crystal and got some severe gouges corrected and the crystal looks brand new. I've oredere the OSRAM bulbs so maybe will have results of the high beam upgrades in the next week. Take a look at Daniel Stern's site it provides an illuminating set of information.
Dave
looks like I made a typo on the web site. It should read:
danielsternlighting.com/tech/bulbs/blue/good/good.html
08-18-2005, 01:55 AM
#23
Dave, I went to Daniel Sterns site and read the article on HID conversions.
He has me quite worried that this may have not been the thing to do.
I think everyone should read this article before installing this kit. In fact, I would appreciate some feedback on what you guys think about his comments.
He has me quite worried that this may have not been the thing to do.
I think everyone should read this article before installing this kit. In fact, I would appreciate some feedback on what you guys think about his comments.
08-19-2005, 12:43 AM
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Alan,
I hadn't read through this part of the site but your right he sure is negative about the conversion kit approach. It seems to me with the design of the projector lens we have (and the designed in sharp cut off it provides) that you could compensate for the overly bright foreground lighting by aiming the beam slightly farther down the road. Of course I have ZERO expertise on this so it is only my best guess.
It would probably also need to be checked for adverse amounts of glare to oncoming traffic.
Dave
I hadn't read through this part of the site but your right he sure is negative about the conversion kit approach. It seems to me with the design of the projector lens we have (and the designed in sharp cut off it provides) that you could compensate for the overly bright foreground lighting by aiming the beam slightly farther down the road. Of course I have ZERO expertise on this so it is only my best guess.
It would probably also need to be checked for adverse amounts of glare to oncoming traffic.Dave
08-19-2005, 12:07 PM
#25
Originally Posted by dpkoby
Alan,
I hadn't read through this part of the site but your right he sure is negative about the conversion kit approach. It seems to me with the design of the projector lens we have (and the designed in sharp cut off it provides) that you could compensate for the overly bright foreground lighting by aiming the beam slightly farther down the road. Of course I have ZERO expertise on this so it is only my best guess. It would probably also need to be checked for adverse amounts of glare to oncoming traffic.
Dave
I hadn't read through this part of the site but your right he sure is negative about the conversion kit approach. It seems to me with the design of the projector lens we have (and the designed in sharp cut off it provides) that you could compensate for the overly bright foreground lighting by aiming the beam slightly farther down the road. Of course I have ZERO expertise on this so it is only my best guess.
It would probably also need to be checked for adverse amounts of glare to oncoming traffic.Dave
Dave,
This is of great concern to me and should be to everyone that has done this conversion. Now, when I drive at night all I can think about is how I am not getting the proper illumination and that the different shade of light is just an illusion in respect to better and safer lighting. It does light up traffic signs that's for sure. However, I am more concerned about lighting up a pedestrian who has strayed into my path by mistake, ya know?
As far as adjusting higher... I think that would be a problem for on-coming traffic inasmuch as it would shine into their eyes and not to sure how much more effective it would be anyway. Bum deal all the way around.
All things considered, it is cool looking but increased vision and safety is now questioned.
So, did anyone else bother to read this?????
08-19-2005, 02:58 PM
#26
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Yes, I've read his arguments and, truthfully, they are pretty convincing. I have my HID conversion kit sitting at home waiting to be installed this weekend. However, I am having serious reservations about doing it.
08-19-2005, 03:12 PM
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08-19-2005, 04:17 PM
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My take on the whole HID Conversion thing and having read the Daniel Stern stuff (my $0.02)
The Stern site does offer some information about just "blindly" performing a change of the bulbs from Halogen to HID, however there is an important point to bear in mind that is "mentioned", but not really fully explained.
The fact is there is a BIG difference in bulb types with respect to whether the filament is AXIAL (ie runs from the bulb tip to the bulb base) or TRANSVERSE (i.e. filament runs side to side), and *then* the relevant shape used behind the bulb to aim and reflect/project the light pattern accordingly
Here's two pictures to show.... An Axial filament (the H1's as used in the 993's headlights )
and the Transverse (the H3's used in the fog lights).
You can quite clearly see the differences with the filament directions.
Now, then consider how the reflector design is built for the two bulb types...
For the Axial type, you basically have a "cone" shape to maximize the light reflections and then project it forward.
For the Transverse type, you want more of elongated "butter dish" shape, as the light pattern is "across" the bulb and not through the ends of the bulb (couldn't really find a good picture to explain that!)
If you look closely at the headlight and the foglight reflectors on our cars, you'll see what I mean.
So. What does that mean? Well, my brain tells me that if you want the same reflected/projected beam pattern when replacing the bulbs in a given headlight unit, then ensure that the filament direction is the same. For the HID bulbs used in these upgrades, that's PRECISELY what we have done. We've replaced an AXIAL filament bulb (the H1 Halogens) with an AXIAL ARC (the H1 based D2s HID) bulbs.
All is well with the world, as the reflector is designed to handle this and we've not gone against the law of optical physics and tried to put an Axial arc lamp in the place of a Transverse filamant bulb, without changing the reflector/projector as well!
So, my $0.02 still says that the status quo has been met, the reflector is doing it's job the same as before, the light output is BETTER/BRIGHTER, the power consuption is LOWER (which as a side benefit means MORE power to the rear wheels, as there's less loss in the alternator to drive the bulbs
).
I wouldn't worry with putting these bulbs in the headlamps... we're not doing anything wrong... it's just the Stern site doesn't make the point very well.
However, the real cruncher is that if you wanted to put HID's into the Fog Lamps this is a BAD thing, as these use a transverse filament arrangement.
Hope that makes some feel better.
Of course the REAL test would be for someone who has the factory Litronic headlights to tell us if the projector looks different in their headlights from the Halogen based ones. I suspect there isn't a difference.
Clive.
The Stern site does offer some information about just "blindly" performing a change of the bulbs from Halogen to HID, however there is an important point to bear in mind that is "mentioned", but not really fully explained.
The fact is there is a BIG difference in bulb types with respect to whether the filament is AXIAL (ie runs from the bulb tip to the bulb base) or TRANSVERSE (i.e. filament runs side to side), and *then* the relevant shape used behind the bulb to aim and reflect/project the light pattern accordingly
Here's two pictures to show.... An Axial filament (the H1's as used in the 993's headlights )
and the Transverse (the H3's used in the fog lights).
You can quite clearly see the differences with the filament directions.
Now, then consider how the reflector design is built for the two bulb types...
For the Axial type, you basically have a "cone" shape to maximize the light reflections and then project it forward.
For the Transverse type, you want more of elongated "butter dish" shape, as the light pattern is "across" the bulb and not through the ends of the bulb (couldn't really find a good picture to explain that!)
If you look closely at the headlight and the foglight reflectors on our cars, you'll see what I mean.
So. What does that mean? Well, my brain tells me that if you want the same reflected/projected beam pattern when replacing the bulbs in a given headlight unit, then ensure that the filament direction is the same. For the HID bulbs used in these upgrades, that's PRECISELY what we have done. We've replaced an AXIAL filament bulb (the H1 Halogens) with an AXIAL ARC (the H1 based D2s HID) bulbs.
All is well with the world, as the reflector is designed to handle this and we've not gone against the law of optical physics and tried to put an Axial arc lamp in the place of a Transverse filamant bulb, without changing the reflector/projector as well!
So, my $0.02 still says that the status quo has been met, the reflector is doing it's job the same as before, the light output is BETTER/BRIGHTER, the power consuption is LOWER (which as a side benefit means MORE power to the rear wheels, as there's less loss in the alternator to drive the bulbs
).I wouldn't worry with putting these bulbs in the headlamps... we're not doing anything wrong... it's just the Stern site doesn't make the point very well.
However, the real cruncher is that if you wanted to put HID's into the Fog Lamps this is a BAD thing, as these use a transverse filament arrangement.
Hope that makes some feel better.
Of course the REAL test would be for someone who has the factory Litronic headlights to tell us if the projector looks different in their headlights from the Halogen based ones. I suspect there isn't a difference.
Clive.
08-19-2005, 04:49 PM
#29
Clive, you are da man. Thanks for your wisdom on this issue. Somehow, I new you would have an answer. 
I sure would be interested in seeing a factory HID set-up to see if there is any difference. Do you think that the glass cover may have something to do with it too. The way they cut the glass to refract the light? I would venture to say that the internal reflectors are probably the same but the outer glass could be designed differently.
Thoughts?
I sure would be interested in seeing a factory HID set-up to see if there is any difference. Do you think that the glass cover may have something to do with it too. The way they cut the glass to refract the light? I would venture to say that the internal reflectors are probably the same but the outer glass could be designed differently.
Thoughts?
08-19-2005, 06:17 PM
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hmmm.... not sure about "wisdom", but just my $0.02 worth....
Anyway. Just took a look at PET to see if the front glass could be any different. The answer is no. The Halogen and Litronics headlights use the same front glass (same part#) so the front of the headlight is not different and doesn't "shape" the light pattern any differently.
However, the main headlight/reflector unit does have different part numbers. I *suspect* that the difference is probably more to do with the bulb base mount than the reflector part. i.e. the Porsche HID bulbs are probably NOT H1 bases, but D2r or D2s (IIRC?) bases and as such have a different "magnesium" (or whatever it is) metal backing behind the plastic reflector/projector lens part.
Of course that is pure conjecture on my part... maybe someone with Litronics fancies taking a few photos of their setup??
I'd also consider that the rear bulb base is the thing that changes, as I don't think anyone in their right mind - but that's just to my thinking - would spent huge $$$ developing a subtly different projector part for only a few 1000 shipped litronic units....... you'd want to keep the same projector part and modify the base to fit the bulbs in... but considering this was a HUGE $$$ cost option, maybe they did do just that. I don't know!
I still think that with the same orientation of "light " from whatever bulb is in there (Halogen filament or Gas Discharge Arc) there is no problem with the upgrade in this case.
Happy to be proved wrong though!
Clive.
Anyway. Just took a look at PET to see if the front glass could be any different. The answer is no. The Halogen and Litronics headlights use the same front glass (same part#) so the front of the headlight is not different and doesn't "shape" the light pattern any differently.
However, the main headlight/reflector unit does have different part numbers. I *suspect* that the difference is probably more to do with the bulb base mount than the reflector part. i.e. the Porsche HID bulbs are probably NOT H1 bases, but D2r or D2s (IIRC?) bases and as such have a different "magnesium" (or whatever it is) metal backing behind the plastic reflector/projector lens part.
Of course that is pure conjecture on my part... maybe someone with Litronics fancies taking a few photos of their setup??
I'd also consider that the rear bulb base is the thing that changes, as I don't think anyone in their right mind - but that's just to my thinking - would spent huge $$$ developing a subtly different projector part for only a few 1000 shipped litronic units....... you'd want to keep the same projector part and modify the base to fit the bulbs in... but considering this was a HUGE $$$ cost option, maybe they did do just that. I don't know!
I still think that with the same orientation of "light " from whatever bulb is in there (Halogen filament or Gas Discharge Arc) there is no problem with the upgrade in this case.
Happy to be proved wrong though!
Clive.