RallyJon

I’m thinking about consolidating cars. Right now I have an STI daily driver and a ’71 911 RS replica which I don’t drive nearly enough. I’m considering whether a 993 C4 would be a good do-everything car in place of both.

I love the 911, but I don’t drive it in the snow or rain and it’s not insured to drive to work, so it really only goes out on summer weekends for back roads blasts. I love the immediate feedback of steering and brakes, go-kart handling and light weight. But it’s actually tiring to drive for more than an hour or so with stiff suspension and minimal sound deadening. Way too raw to be a daily driver. I put less than 2000 miles on it last year. (if you want to see it, go here: www.rallystuff.com/pcar.html )

The Subaru is incredibly competent and has a great engine and drivetrain. It’s nice to have a car that can so easily handle everything that you throw at it, yet has no maintenance concerns. Zero-to-60 in less than five seconds and a full warranty. But it lacks refinement, the interior is cheap and noisy, and my relatives wonder why I drive a kid’s car.

Basically, will a 993 C4 deliver the “Porsche-ness” of a real 911, combined with the performance and practicality that won’t make me miss the STI, delivered with a bit more refinement than both?

There are a couple of critical areas where I have concerns about the 993:

1) The power to weight ratio of the 993 (11 lbs/hp) is pretty close to the STI (11 lbs/hp) and the ’71 (12 lbs/hp). The gearing seems all wrong, though: it looks like 3nd gear on the 993 is even taller than 4th on the STI. Also, the 993 has a torque peak that’s at very high revs. Is the tall gearing as big a problem as it appears?

2) Suspension travel. One of the best things about the STI is that you can toss it down a bumpy road and it just soaks up the potholes. Here is SE PA, the roads are complete crap. From what I’ve read on the web, most of the 993 suspension tuning is in the direction of extreme lowering. How much jounce travel and ground clearance does a 993 C4 have? Can it handle daily driving in pothole (and occasional snow) country without setting the ride height so it looks like a 4x4?

3) Refinement. It’s pretty amazing that Porsche kept the same basic car going from my ’71 through the 993. I have to wonder how much a 993 feels like a gussied up old chassis? Conversely, how much of what makes a 911 special did Porsche tune and refine out over the years? I guess that’s one aspect that I’ll have to judge for myself when I drive one.

Anyway, thanks for any advice, especially from anyone who is familiar with the STI (so they know where I’m coming from) and/or daily-drives their 993 in the snow belt (so they know what I’m in for).

vuugti

Your RS is a real beauty!

Sell them both and buy Viperbobs 993TT. That's the best option.

I think if you have the correct shock dampening, regardless of ride height, you will be OK on the rough roads. I have spent my fair share of time in your area and your roads are crap. Although going from an STI to a 993 will pose some spacial concerns the overall outcome of using the C4 or TT would yield a great year round daily driver with the correct tires.


Cheers,
Andy

mborkow

my 993 c4 is my daily driver (and only car). i can't speak for snow (don't have any in SF) but the c4 handles like a dream in wet, rainy conditions (i have never felt more planted on the road in any vehicle ever). i have only driven an sti once, and it was fun, but not in the same league as the 993 so i don't think you will be dissapointed there, but (and this won't make people on this board happy) the maintenance bill for a daily driven 993 borders on the insane (or at least it has for me). if you aren't going to do your own maintenance, budget at least $2k/year -- and that is w/o considering rubber ($1k per/year) or anything else going wrong -- which it will since these are now 10 year old cars. i have driven in PA (philly) and i don't think the roads there were any worse than the roads are here so i think you are ok there, but i don't have my car lowered (in fact, at >91k miles, i am still on original stock suspension :-O). the only downside to your proposed action (that i can see) is that you will no longer have a warranty and things will break on your 993 (as they would on any car that is nearly 10 years old). if you don't mind the high maintenance, i say: go for it!

vjd3

I've had almost the opposite experiences with my daily driver 993's (all 95 cars) ... very few problems, and scheduled maintenance (oil every 7500 miles) has been the rule for me. Any non-warranty car will be costly to fix, but most people who daily drive a 993 don't have serious problems. There are exceptions wtih some cars of course, the biggest and most costly probably being the CEL and secondary injection problems that are on the 96-98 cars, at least in terms of requiring attention to pass an emissions exam ... not an issue on the 95. I can't imagine a better do-it-all sports car than a C4 assuming you can live with a small car that can't carry a whole lot.

Vic
95 C4

mborkow

i do oil changes every 5k, and i do a major service every 15k. oil change tends to run $200-$300 and the major service is close to a $1k. i do 20k miles per year...so that is a range of $1600 - $2600 per year for scheduled maintenance. most people seem to go through tires in about 15K miles so you have to figure that on a daily driver you prob will replace rubber once a year (about $1k). i have had CEL/SAI (top end rebuild) and that is something you have to consider when purchasing 96+, but there are also some other pretty common problems like steering rack (which will cost between $1k and $2k). like i said, it is a great car, but you should know what you are getting into (especially since you are going from 2 cars down to 1).

RallyJon

The STI goes through a set of summer tires every year, if you use the super-stickies.

I did up a chart to show the gearing differences. Wow.

CAA

Rally - I'm either reading this incorrectly, or you may want to check your sources. The 1995 C4 I used to own didn't have a chance in hell of hitting a top speed of 195 MPH. Then again, I never got the chance to drive it off a cliff....

mborkow

i thnk top speed for the 993 (n/a) was just over 170

rally185 is sorta right though, the gearing on the 993 isn't the best...6th gear is useless unless on the highway (unless you are 20+ mph over the speed limit where i live), the gaps are huge, and the gears are too tall --do i really need to be able to do 65 mph in 2nd gear!? still, it is a blast to drive :-)

RallyJon

On most cars, the above two included, top speed is drag limited, not gearing limited. Not many cars around where you can hit redline in top gear. My source for the 993 gear ratios is a prior thread on Rennlist, which referenced this page: http://www.ultimabuild.com/transmission.htm

swmic

You need to drive a 993 before you can answer your question. I don't drive mine everyday or in bad weather, but I don't think the road conditions around here will be a problem. The mostly single lane narrow roads here with no turn lanes are the real problem. You'd probably have to buy a set of winter wheels with the amount of snow and ice we get. I also think you may be somewhat disappointed in the pull the car has, due both to the gearing and lack of torque, especially coming from a turbo car like the STI. For a NA six its not bad, but a turbo spoils you. I would consider a STI but can't stomach the boy racer look.

Rassel

Guh, sixth gear is for cruise and gas save. Not for performance driving.

mborkow

"sixth gear is for cruise and gas save"
80 mph (crusising speed in my area) in 6th gear is ~2800 rpm...that is too low, imo (i prefer to be at a minimum of 3k rpm)

Edward

Hi Rally,

First, my apologies but you should be flogged for wanting to sell such a gorgeous RS rep like you have there. If it is in as nice a shape as the pics suggest, you will regret selling it as more and more long-hoods fall by the wayside, and yours will become more and more special. I would most definitely keep that (forever!!!) as the fun car, and insure it to drive on those "feel-like-it" days.

Were I in your position, I'd ditch the STI and find another daily ride that would feed your Porsche fix more appropriately. The proceeds of the STI + a bit of cash could get you a nice G-50 Carrera (or 964C4 as it looks like you want the AWD). Infuse a bit more cash (home equity loan?) and you can get yourself into a higher-mileage 993C4. I know it's easy for me to spend your money, but really, that RS looks like a keeper, especially for all of us who secretly would love to have one, but can't afford a stable of 911s. Good luck with the decision.

Edward

RallyJon

Thanks for the nice comments about the RS replica.

Unfortunately, a non-numbers matching, heavily modified early car will never be more than the sum of its parts in terms of resale value. In retrospect, I wish I'd picked up a nice, mostly stock E or S four years ago, which would have about doubled in value.

It's a fun toy--a really fun toy--but it kills me to have it sitting there for weeks at a time in between forays into the country. I want my 911 dose more often then that, and given my location and other circumstances, I think that will require a different 911.

jdoc7

Oh c'mon! We're all still boys...just have more money to spend on toys! The STI is not a kids car. I don't know too many kids who can afford a $30K+ car unless they have rich parents. I just got an EVO MR and love it to death! Way more fun to drive than my 993. You are right though, the refinement of the STI/EVO may not be there like a Porsche. Good luck with your decision.