trojanman

I've got significantly clogged SAI ports and CEL'd 85 miles post-purchase. After some initial posturing, the dealer agreed to "make it right" and allowed the car to go to Hergesheimer.

I spoke with Mark yesterday afternoon and he said they took one valve cover off and looked at the valves/guides. I have 2mm of play and "technically, I need a valve job". HOWEVER, he also told me that one could argue that this is normal wear for a 39k-mile car.

I think Herg's going to just recommend to Truspeed (dealer) their "flush" procedure for the clogged ports. I'm not pleased/satisfied with this solution for two main reasons:

1) The car started having the CEL issue 3 years and 15,000 miles ago, which indicates to me that the guides were likely bad enough back then to allow for significant carbon build-up. From my understanding, oil consumption over time in these cars is not linear but rather has a tendancy to be exponential, which means I'll continue to burn oil at a high rate, build the carbon up faster, and be right back where I am now in short order.

2) I am very skeptical about the success of clearing clogged SAI ports without taking off the head and getting to them directly. Aside from the conventional (albeit expensive) approach, I've seen nothing to convince me that there's a proven effective way to clear the SAI passages of significant carbon build-up.

I'm hoping Truspeed will see this logic and step up and do the valve job. I think they have to ask themselves, "what would they have done if the car CEL'd before they sold it to me?" We're talking 85 miles here... it's just my dumb luck that it happened to me and not them. They'd have to "make it right", or disclose that the car has had issues (which would affect price).

Wish me luck...

Rick Lee

I don't think you've driven the car long enough to know the valves' condition. If your SAI ports are clogged, it doesn't necessarily mean you have valve issues. Do the SAI flush, get your oil level straight and then drive exactly 1000 miles and see where your oil level is. If you've gone down a qt. or more, then it's time to start planning for a valve job, but unless you're blowing blue smoke on decel, I'd enjoy the car for a while.

Arrwin

The problem with going that route, is if it indeed is the fault of bad valves and the ports get clogged shortly after the flush is completed, he will almost postively have to pay for the engine to come out for a rebuild himself and I seriously doubt Truspeed will try to "make it right" again.

I think you should be persistent and be firm on wanting a rebuild and reason with them that this is the only solution. Unless, they agree to do a flush and give you a 10k mile "warranty" or something like that, that says if the CEL comes back on, they will have to remedy the situation AGAIN.

Good luck and i'm sure you're car will be good again.

TomF

If your car needs a valve job, then the dealer should step up and take care of this on a good faith basis. Did you do a PPI? As I understand it, some cars show significant valve guide wear after just a short time. It seems to be luck of the draw. Many people have had success with cleaning the SAI ports. The valve play is somewhat alarming. I would not let this go very long without a definitive remedy.

The dealer should make this right- after only 85 miles!

David in LA

Rick is right...you can have worn valves guides and not have clogged SAI ports, and you can also have clogged SAI ports and not premature valve guide wear. Both seem to be related to excess heat, low speed stop and go driving, or a combination of both....but IIRC one does not necessarily cause the other.

If Hergie's work is not enough to satisfy you, then if it were me I would ask TruSpeed to rescind the sale and move on. Good luck w/ your car...they're great cars once they are sorted out (why I always recommend that prospective purchasers set aside an additional $3-5K for unforseen repairs in the first 12-18 mos) .

garychios

Drive the card hard. It will fix anything clogged.

As for the guides. Does porsche or any other manufacture sell harder guides? The Phosphorous Bronze is too soft for Street use and thats why everyone has these probs. If I redo my guids at the machine shop, I am not putting in stock. Something a bit harder.

TomF

Steve W. mentioned a much harder guide than the fosphorus bronze ones. Try a search under valve guides...

mborkow

"I always recommend that prospective purchasers set aside an additional $3-5K for unforseen repairs in the first 12-18 mos"
if you double that number (to $6-10K) you'd be a lot closer especially if you are talking about a 993 with 60k+ miles on the clock

aam993

It might not be that straightforward with going with "something a bit harder" for valve guides. I remember reading(I think on PCA Tech website) that hard valve guides might have good lifetime, but then valves themselves will wear out and break with much worse outcome for the engine. OEM materials for engine internals might have been chosen by Porsche for a reason and changing just one component won't neccessary be for better.

TroyN

2mm of play?? That sounds huge, what's the diameter of the stems themselves?

Berkley

Until you get a top end rebuild; and frankly with the past issues and now your experience, I would be leary of this Porsche.....don't dilute the fun factor of owning a Porsche with anything less than a rebuild OR a repurchase by TruSpeed......

Jeff I think at the end of the day I would take option #2 and move along.....Hold your ground and I for one am very sorry you have had this crappy experience

JasonAndreas

If Mark is measuring the tilt play with a dial gauge indicator than 0.8mm is the maximum wear for the intake and exhaust valves!
If you need supporting documentation from Porsche let me know.

Davies

Some valve-guide wear in a 993 at 90-100K+ miles is fairly normal. At 39K miles it's premature.

chris walrod

Maybe it did happen to them and the codes were cleared, just prior to sale.(?)

Speak to Mark H. again and try to get a feel for what he thinks of your valve guide condition.

This is the time to get this taken care of on Truspeed's nickle.

SAI port cleaning (without disassembly) may work -enough- to prevent the CEL for some time. Only removing the heads and physically cleaning them out is the only way to ensure those passages are clean. I say this because, so far, this is still Truspeed's repair. With their recent steering rack repair, you have witnessed first hand how just about any car dealer minimizes ANY due repairs.
Hopefully at least that repair is, well, repaired

Adrienne

Yes, harder guides are available and should be installed. DO NOT replace with OEM guides.

I'd suggest using the PCA technical section as another source of info. Joel Reiser has a lot to say on this topic.

As far as fixing SAI clogging with the "Italian tune-up", there is no consensus on that. My understanding is that the SAI ports are only open and operating when the car is cold. Therefore, getting the car extra hot to burn out that carbon build-up would not clean out the closed SAI ports, but will clean other areas. I could be wrong, but that's the way I have interpreted the posts here on this topic. If anyone thinks to the contrary, I'd like to see it explained.

However, Techron additive will clean the ports if used regularly.