jrgordonsenior

Jason it was typically poorly written legislation whose impact was far reaching beyond the intended fraudulent seller. There are already many consumer laws available in California including the 48 hours recision law, and multiple fraud laws. Buyers no longer spend the time/resources to check out a car or the dealer. Did this buyer get a PPI or at least a 30 day warranty from Truespeed? In not, why not? The slogan "buyer beware" has no greater application than in the horse or car business....

aam993

Jeff,
have you had leakdown test done as a part of PPI? According to Loren(post #12 in this thread), it can rule out bad valve guides. Sounds like a very good idea...

Mark in Hermosa

That is an interesting statement. Truspeed is doing this because they want to keep a customer it seems. There is no need for them to do this. He bought an 9 year old car. Truspeeds employees are not mechanics, but they do make every car available for a PPI. Do they take the car apart before they sell it? Are they required to? No.

The are paying to solve the CEL. That is a nice gesture. It doesn't "stink".

Michael_Philippi

JR Gordon:

There is no 48 hour recision law in California when it comes to the purchase of an automobile. There is no good reason to buy a warranty from a dealer, unless the dealer has something to hide. The cost benefit analysis fails in each and every example if the dealer is being truthful. The proposed law was a good law which fell victim to special interest funding to kill it. But, this is not the appropriate place to discuss law or politics.

Jeff:

I am sending you a PM with my telephone number. There are a few things you need to consider before you sign any agreements with Truespeed.

Michael

flatair

I'm with you Mark, take the deal and run

Martin S.

Re. the Techron mention abover, I was told by a well renowned mechanic in LA, NOT to use Techron or Chevron gas. He feels this additive is worthless, maybe even harmful. He doesn't want to be quoted for personal reasons.

At this point in time, you are NOT going to be happy. You want a valve job, Truspeed will pay for a flush out. As was posted above, consider asking Truspeed to rescind the sale and move on.

Or, knowing that Truspeed is a very solid and well respected store, If you really want the car, graciously accept the flush out allowance from Truspeed (They are too kind), and apply it to the valve job. Hergie and his boys will do a fine job for you...you will be pleased and will be confident knowing that you probably will never have to do a valve job again! If they are kind enough to do this, then be certain your next Porsche is purchased with a warranty, and be certain to READ the warranty to see if this potential problem is covered. I doubt that it will be. Or, find a 993 for cheap, and know that sooner or later you will have to do the valves....put aside $5,000.

If the originator of this thread has "thin skin", stop reading NOW!. The following is not intended as a flame, just my observation, as I "invest" $ into my car, year after year for mods, somewhat limited required maintenance, race tires, etc. Its a Porsche car, NOT a Lexus. It will require care and maintenance...sorry, that is the way it is. For me, I am more than happy to do maintenance and repairs as needed, but that is just me. I track the car maybe 6 times a year and I want it running to perfection, and it always does and never skips a beat. When the CEL comes on, I'll step up and do the valves.

As one of my respected wrenches in the business says, "What part of Porsche racing (Ownership) did you think would be cheap, was it the racing part, or the Porsche part?" I think this theme also extends to Porsche driving in general..it is an exotic, limited production car, as I see it, and a privlidge to own and drive.

Its sort of like divorce, think of it this way, ask yourself, "Why is divorce (Porsche ownership) so expensive?" Because its worth it! Having owned a number of Porsche cars, and having gone through one (1) divorce, I can write these words based on years of experience.

I do hope you get a 993, you will love it once it gets over the colic and you change the diapers.

trojanman

Sounds like I've started a bit of a debate here which I never really intended to do... so enough of feeling sorry for myself.

If you all remember (and for those of you who don't), the biggest issue with this whole transaction is the fact that both Truspeed and I found out after the fact that the car had a sordid past... it was in fact sold by its PO (advertised on Ebay) one month before I bought it for nearly $10K LESS THAN I PAID after he fully disclosed the CEL problem and the fact that the car likely needed a valve job. It ended up at Truspeed at least 2 transactions later with the problem undisclosed.

So I guess you chalk it up to bad luck and move on... to be fair, Truspeed will take a bath on this transaction as they've already got approx. $4k into the car (steering rack, O2 sensors, rear tires, wheel fix, radio, and a bunch of diagnostics), and will likely be seeing a few grand more.

I'm out of my fetal position now... I just want to get past this and start to really enjoy why I did this in the first place. Onward and upward!!

Thanks for the support and advice...

Chuck W.

Split the cost of the valve job with Truspeed and enjoy the car.

Dr. No

I guess I'm in the crowd that thinks (1) sounds like Truspeed is being fair under the circumstances and (2) if you can afford it and the car is even CLOSE to needing a top end, I'd take the "split the cost and do it right one time" option. Imagine being without your car again while it's in the shop AGAIN. Good luck.

24FPS

sorry mark (i respect your opinion)... but like i stated to trojanman IF the car was, "presented to you as being problem free w/ clean history" .................. & if not, i am wrong.

from everything i've heard (be it one side), truespeed was sold the "problem" car 1st & is passing it along. i do agree they are trying to come to the plate on it albeit a temporary fix. (or share the cost of a real fix)

& fact, if anyone of us was in this situation it would stink. ----> he just bought the car & 80-some odd miles down the road... $BAM$!

trojanman thanks for sharing your woes w/ us. unfortunate that the car didn't come w/ @ least a 1k mi. warranty or somethin' for ya.

think steve is "spot on" about 993's. wish ya the best of luck.

---out.

JasonAndreas

trojanman,
Just out of curiousity was the state of the SAI readiness flag checked during the PPI? I'm not trying to pass the responsibility onto anyone. Your situation is happening to and more people everyday and we need to figure out way to prevent it.


Martin,
When I took my motor apart I noticed the same thing, the only part that was clean was the portion of the intake valves that were directly in the path of the fuel injectors (a very tiny portion). Everything else was "dirty", I will never waste another penny on the stuff.

garychios

Sounds like a lot of people dont understand too much about the internal workings of a 993 or most motors. A compression test wont tell you if your valve guids are worn. Ask me how I know. A PPI that involves taking of the valve covers and close inspection might yield a result, but I have seen how Porsche does a PPI. What a joke. Harder guides wont snap valves. We dont rev the motors like race cars and dont push them for hours on end on high compression or forced induction. Thats all BS.


In the end, the 993 is notorious for a few things, if this Porsche doesnt have the problem, the next one will. Phosphorous bronze is prefered in race cars because its soft and does not rob HP from the motor as much as a harder material. A harder material will yield more heat and friction and cause a slight loss in power, but Who cares? Its minimal and not noticable and these are all street cars. If you are worried about power, put in a supercharger or upgrade your turbos.

David in LA

but a leakdown will. If I were buying a high mileage 993 or ANY mileage 993TT I would definitely include a compression and leakdown test in the PPI.

axl911

Neither a leakdown nor compression will tell you valve guide wear. When performing leakdown, the intake and exhaust valves are closed so no air escapes.

Valve guides are almost impossible to detect. At true, and expensive, weakness on these Porsches.

---
anthony
living and coping with worn valve guides

trojanman

Jason... the readiness codes were all clear at the time of PPI, 85 miles before the CEL came on. In fact, Laura said it was great that that was the case. In there lies the problem... extremely difficult to diagnose SAI issues, even if the car has had a history of them.