"normal" valve guide wear??
05-26-2005, 06:19 PM
#17
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Yep, I talked to many folks about that issue. Only one mechanic thought the soft guides were a "feature" to protect other more catastrophic damage. Long story short, I went with non-OEM guides to replace the flawed original guides.
05-26-2005, 06:44 PM
#18
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Just my opinion based on past posts, pictures of clogged SAI ports (including mine), my recent top end rebuild by Bob at Devek, and the rebuild on my previous '87 Cab due to valve guide wear:
1. No amount of Techron and Italian tune-up will unclog an SAI port. Think about how small it is and picture it 90% blocked.
2. The Hergesheimer unclog process works.
3. Valve guide wear can be premature, as early as 50K miles, because of low speeds in hot freeway traffic.
4. Valve guide replacement labor is expensive, so you should use the non-OEM harder material - unobtanium or something rare like that.
5. If you're lucky, all this and some oil leaks at the valve covers and timing chain covers happens only once all at the same time, plus you can't resist the LWF/RS clutch, and the prudent move is to add new plug wires "while we are in there", so you just budget your next couple of paychecks or call your mortgage broker.
mborkow was right, figure 2X the $4K budget for a car with>60K and driven mostly in stop and go hot traffic.
1. No amount of Techron and Italian tune-up will unclog an SAI port. Think about how small it is and picture it 90% blocked.
2. The Hergesheimer unclog process works.
3. Valve guide wear can be premature, as early as 50K miles, because of low speeds in hot freeway traffic.
4. Valve guide replacement labor is expensive, so you should use the non-OEM harder material - unobtanium or something rare like that.
5. If you're lucky, all this and some oil leaks at the valve covers and timing chain covers happens only once all at the same time, plus you can't resist the LWF/RS clutch, and the prudent move is to add new plug wires "while we are in there", so you just budget your next couple of paychecks or call your mortgage broker.
mborkow was right, figure 2X the $4K budget for a car with>60K and driven mostly in stop and go hot traffic.
05-26-2005, 08:07 PM
#20
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After some wrangling with Truspeed over this situation, I'm faced with one of two options...
They will pay for the SAI port cleaning; or
They will split the cost with me for a new top end.
Mark doesn't believe the top end needs to be done right now and thinks his cleaning method will get me many more trouble-free miles. I'm inclined, however, to just suck-it-up on half the top end and have the peace of mind.
Suffice to say, I'm exhausted... shouldn't I be having more fun by now???
They will pay for the SAI port cleaning; or
They will split the cost with me for a new top end.
Mark doesn't believe the top end needs to be done right now and thinks his cleaning method will get me many more trouble-free miles. I'm inclined, however, to just suck-it-up on half the top end and have the peace of mind.
Suffice to say, I'm exhausted... shouldn't I be having more fun by now???
05-26-2005, 08:13 PM
#22
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Just the top end, but I imagine the part where the trans mates to the new LWF got a new seal. Bob said all the rest, including cylinder walls, rings, valves, springs and hydraulic lifters looked very nice. Some of this I saw how good it looked when I took the pics I posted a few weeks back when he had it all apart. The heads went out to a machine shop.
05-26-2005, 08:16 PM
#23
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Originally Posted by trojanman
After some wrangling with Truspeed over this situation, I'm faced with one of two options...
05-26-2005, 08:40 PM
#25
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There is some value to certainty. At least you know what the status of the SAI ports are and what Mark's view is regarding the valve guides. If you were to return the car to truspeed and buy another car, you would not likely know the condition of either. Another thing to consider is whether you need other work done to the car. Is it near a major service? Were you considering an upgrade to a lwf? Plug wires need replacing? If you do the top-end work and do some of these other things, you will end up saving a lot of money as clutch, plug wires, major service will be a piece of cake with the engine out. This is one way to amortize down the impact to you.
Kinda blows to have to shell out $2k (1/2 of assumed $4k or so for top-end work) on a recently purchased car but at least you will know that the top end is solid and CEL should not be an issue for some time, if at all.
The other thing you could do, particularly if Truspeed isn't going to take the car back under any circumstances, is to drive the car around to see what the oil consumption is - the other indication of valve guide wear.
Good luck.
Kinda blows to have to shell out $2k (1/2 of assumed $4k or so for top-end work) on a recently purchased car but at least you will know that the top end is solid and CEL should not be an issue for some time, if at all.
The other thing you could do, particularly if Truspeed isn't going to take the car back under any circumstances, is to drive the car around to see what the oil consumption is - the other indication of valve guide wear.
Good luck.
05-27-2005, 01:35 AM
#26
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Cleaning the SAI ports is like taking cold medicine, your only treating the symptoms and not doing anything for the problem. Its too bad the governor in California just recently vetoed a used car buyer protection law, if he hadn't you might have been able to have this fixed properly on their dime.
05-27-2005, 04:02 AM
#27
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geez... immho truespeed is "a piece of work"..... they'll give ya' a band aid to the problem... when you purchased (i'll assume) a car presented to you as being problem free w/ clean history? that stinks...
fact: you have a 993 w/ the carbon build up problem.
from my understanding ----> most cars treated w/ the "port cleaning" procedure are ones that have not yet become a full blow problem such as your "new2you" car. cleaning the ports will only be a temporary solution. if history of the car is to burn dirty, plan on another "port clean" in another 15-20k miles. wtf?!!! immho you need a top end rebuild.
also, by any chance did you get any kind of warranty @ purchase?
where's steve ?
fact: you have a 993 w/ the carbon build up problem.
from my understanding ----> most cars treated w/ the "port cleaning" procedure are ones that have not yet become a full blow problem such as your "new2you" car. cleaning the ports will only be a temporary solution. if history of the car is to burn dirty, plan on another "port clean" in another 15-20k miles. wtf?!!! immho you need a top end rebuild.
also, by any chance did you get any kind of warranty @ purchase?
where's steve ?
Last edited by 24FPS; 05-27-2005 at 04:19 AM.
por favor? 
05-27-2005, 04:27 AM
#30
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Jeff called me the other day and we discussed this subject in great detail for quite a while.
I'm not a lawyer and certainly know nothing about CA law so I cannot comment about what responsibilities the selling dealer has in situations like these. I simply told Jeff is that its no secret that these cars have always had short valve guide life (some better than others) but when one finds a good example that is otherwise in excellent condition and meets all the personal criteria, IMHO its well worth the investment to go ahead and fix it right, once and for all that provides years of enjoyment with these great cars.
There are many short term fixes and Mark & Laura Hergesheimer are at the top of the game on all those options (as well as fixing this right) since they see far more street cars than I do. There are measures that allow someone to put it off for some time such as cleaning the passages and of course, a new SAI check valve (Mark's suggestion).
That said,...one should understand that EVERYTHING out there is "cause & effect" and these SAI code displays are symptomatic of the effect. The root cause of the plugged passages is the carbon buildups and SAI Check valve failures. My MO is to be proactive about such things and I'd rather fix something right the first time and not pursue a short-term treatment unless there are extenuating circumstances.
Just one person's opinion,.....
I'm not a lawyer and certainly know nothing about CA law so I cannot comment about what responsibilities the selling dealer has in situations like these. I simply told Jeff is that its no secret that these cars have always had short valve guide life (some better than others) but when one finds a good example that is otherwise in excellent condition and meets all the personal criteria, IMHO its well worth the investment to go ahead and fix it right, once and for all that provides years of enjoyment with these great cars.
There are many short term fixes and Mark & Laura Hergesheimer are at the top of the game on all those options (as well as fixing this right) since they see far more street cars than I do. There are measures that allow someone to put it off for some time such as cleaning the passages and of course, a new SAI check valve (Mark's suggestion).
That said,...one should understand that EVERYTHING out there is "cause & effect" and these SAI code displays are symptomatic of the effect. The root cause of the plugged passages is the carbon buildups and SAI Check valve failures. My MO is to be proactive about such things and I'd rather fix something right the first time and not pursue a short-term treatment unless there are extenuating circumstances.
Just one person's opinion,.....