A sad start to the rumble
05-04-2005, 09:59 PM
#377
Miserable Old Bastard
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I can't believe this debate is still going on. John D owns and runs this place, and HE knows what is going on and is comfortable with it, as evidenced by (a) his avatar, (b) his comment about the nice pictures before the flaming started, and (c) his long post after the flaming started. I just don't see it is everyone's jurisdiction to police the board with open comments; a PM to John D or the moderators ought to suffice. I don't remember who said what and I really don't care, the fact is there were nasty comments that went way overboard.
I intensely dislike profiteers who show up here and try to abuse the system, and I'm happy to see their posts removed (by the moderators). Alan is a special situation, and the powers that be are well aware of it. Those who know him know him understand his motivation is not profit, and this has all been aired before and considered by the moderators / owners of this site.
I come back to what many said above - I was deriving great enjoyment from this thread after our rumble, and it all turned to crap after non-participants turned it into a nasty debate. I have made a lot of friends here, real and virtual, since I discovered rennlist a little more than a year ago, and almost without fail its a GREAT bunch of people drawn together through a common theme. What has happened here has left a very sour taste in my mouth; I have no intention of leaving, but if this became the norm on rennlist, I would no longer want to participate.
Since we are already reexamining some rules (i.e. moderators shouldn't ban someone, only John D. and Jenn), I suggest we also make a new rule that nobody should criticize, in an open thread, a member for allegedly violating the charter, but that any such comments should directed privately only to the moderators, who can deal with it as they see fit.
I intensely dislike profiteers who show up here and try to abuse the system, and I'm happy to see their posts removed (by the moderators). Alan is a special situation, and the powers that be are well aware of it. Those who know him know him understand his motivation is not profit, and this has all been aired before and considered by the moderators / owners of this site.
I come back to what many said above - I was deriving great enjoyment from this thread after our rumble, and it all turned to crap after non-participants turned it into a nasty debate. I have made a lot of friends here, real and virtual, since I discovered rennlist a little more than a year ago, and almost without fail its a GREAT bunch of people drawn together through a common theme. What has happened here has left a very sour taste in my mouth; I have no intention of leaving, but if this became the norm on rennlist, I would no longer want to participate.
Since we are already reexamining some rules (i.e. moderators shouldn't ban someone, only John D. and Jenn), I suggest we also make a new rule that nobody should criticize, in an open thread, a member for allegedly violating the charter, but that any such comments should directed privately only to the moderators, who can deal with it as they see fit.
05-04-2005, 09:59 PM
#378
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Cy
Rather it has to do with coming onto Rennlist for 30 mins and having someones advertising, whether successful or not, banged into my skull over 200 times.
Kind regards,
Kind regards,
If you simply chose to avoid it, your frustration wouldn't exist. Believe me, when Alan first came onto the scene I was hell bent on trying to prove his motives were nothing more than selfish. It went nowhere and overtime I think Alan has proven he's more into sharing than soliciting.
I don't disagree with EJ and the Rennlist Charter categorizing his pics as a gray area of self promotion, however, taken in the context of why he is posting them I can't see how he's causing any harm.
Mike in Chi once told me that sometimes Rennlist is akin to a bar. You can walk in and see a bunch of conversations occuring. It's up to you which you would like to contribute to. If you don't like what you see or hear, walk away....if you stay and express discontent.....at some point someone's gonna get their *** kicked.
05-04-2005, 10:01 PM
#379
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
The rules are John D. and Jenns. They made them, it's up to them or their moderators to enforce them. Not you Cy, not me, not anybody else. Why does the fact that John D. does not see it as a violation of his own rules not register with you. If he thinks it not a violation, then it's not - no matter what you think. John D.'s opinions are law, yours are just opinions and they not worth anything, they don't mean anything, they have no influence and their only purpose is to flame and consume bandwidth that could be better filled with Alan's pics. So $@*^ off and get the $@*^ out of this thread. Anyone who needs the symbols interpreted can PM me.
05-04-2005, 10:02 PM
#380
Drifting
This thread feels like "high school again"! All this bickering among adults is pathetic...beautiful 993 pictures though! My suggestion is: Ignore the text and focus on the pics!
05-04-2005, 10:04 PM
#382
You know the same goes for you too EJ. All you guys, because you are in the same sh tty little click have to stick together huh? You make it sound like I am violating your board.
IT AIN'T YOUR BOARD OR ANY OF YOUR OTHER OLD SCHOOL DEAD BEATS, IT IS JOHN'S BOARD AND HE HAS CLEARLY INDICATED THAT HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH MY WATERMARK, NO MATTER IF IT IS MY WEB ADDRESS OR A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO YOU. SO GIVE IT A REST ALREADY.
YOU GUYS ARE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE AND THE FEW OF YOU IN YOUR LITTLE CLUB HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT SHOWN ON YOU NOW. WE SEE YOU CLEARLY. THIS IS OUR FORUM NOT YOURS.
YOUR TIME IS OVER.
IT AIN'T YOUR BOARD OR ANY OF YOUR OTHER OLD SCHOOL DEAD BEATS, IT IS JOHN'S BOARD AND HE HAS CLEARLY INDICATED THAT HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH MY WATERMARK, NO MATTER IF IT IS MY WEB ADDRESS OR A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO YOU. SO GIVE IT A REST ALREADY.
YOU GUYS ARE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE AND THE FEW OF YOU IN YOUR LITTLE CLUB HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT SHOWN ON YOU NOW. WE SEE YOU CLEARLY. THIS IS OUR FORUM NOT YOURS.
YOUR TIME IS OVER.
05-04-2005, 10:05 PM
#383
Racer
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Manhattan, NY
Posts: 267
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Cy
I think you’re vastly missing the point here. It’s not that you should stop posting pictures, but the fact that you use your posts, your avatar, and other people’s avatars to promote your business. A quick count shows that you’ve got over 180 advertisements (and increasing rapidly) for your business on THIS POST ALONE!!
If you enjoy posting pictures so much, then why do you include your business name and website to each picture? If you didn’t see an advantage to it, then you wouldn’t take the time to do it. If protecting your work is a concern then there are certainly more discrete ways to do so.
If you want to use Rennlist to build your business, then why don’t you become a Rennlist sponsor like others with the same intention? I’m not sure why you think you should get an exemption. Promoting your business and not paying for the right to do so freeloads off John D’s efforts to build this board and degrades the contributions (monetary and advise) of the sponsors.
You yourself state that so far you’ve built up an approximately $70K per year ($65 * 20 prints per week * 52 weeks) business and I would presume most of that comes from working the Rennlist boards . . . all for $17.95. The fact that this is practically charity to you as you could earn 20 times more in the cruise business is irrelevant (2 hours in the cruise business for 1 weeks worth of photo sales). (BTW, I wish I had that job!) It seems neither ethical nor equitable to me not to cut John D in on that financial gain through sponsorship or to be placed on equal footing with the other sponsors. Does it to you?
Radar may have come off a little harsh, but you drove Radar’s point to an illogical conclusion for effect . . . he didn't say to stop posting pictures.
I agree that posting pictures is what some people want, and that if someone doesn’t want that they can move on. However, you didn’t include “profusely advertise my business” as one of the reasons. I don’t think people with the best interest of the board in their mind would agree with that reason. Personally, I think you are also doing a fair amount of abuse to the community.
If you're actually paying your fair share then my apologies and maybe an explanation would be helpful so other don't think negatively.
Regards,
If you enjoy posting pictures so much, then why do you include your business name and website to each picture? If you didn’t see an advantage to it, then you wouldn’t take the time to do it. If protecting your work is a concern then there are certainly more discrete ways to do so.
If you want to use Rennlist to build your business, then why don’t you become a Rennlist sponsor like others with the same intention? I’m not sure why you think you should get an exemption. Promoting your business and not paying for the right to do so freeloads off John D’s efforts to build this board and degrades the contributions (monetary and advise) of the sponsors.
You yourself state that so far you’ve built up an approximately $70K per year ($65 * 20 prints per week * 52 weeks) business and I would presume most of that comes from working the Rennlist boards . . . all for $17.95. The fact that this is practically charity to you as you could earn 20 times more in the cruise business is irrelevant (2 hours in the cruise business for 1 weeks worth of photo sales). (BTW, I wish I had that job!) It seems neither ethical nor equitable to me not to cut John D in on that financial gain through sponsorship or to be placed on equal footing with the other sponsors. Does it to you?
Radar may have come off a little harsh, but you drove Radar’s point to an illogical conclusion for effect . . . he didn't say to stop posting pictures.
I agree that posting pictures is what some people want, and that if someone doesn’t want that they can move on. However, you didn’t include “profusely advertise my business” as one of the reasons. I don’t think people with the best interest of the board in their mind would agree with that reason. Personally, I think you are also doing a fair amount of abuse to the community.
If you're actually paying your fair share then my apologies and maybe an explanation would be helpful so other don't think negatively.
Regards,
I've saved you the trouble.
I am over it . . . look back over the past 7 or so pages and see who are the "thin-skinned" ones. There's plenty I could have said about the pathetic comments and group think that's been going on, but I could care less to get into it. (I can bearly believe that stuff about "envy" is serious.)
The only error there was misinterpreting that Alan was making some money here . . . the fact that he isn't is irrelevant. It was that misinterpretation that pushed me over the edge to post, but it's irrelevant. As to your note on my "accusatory" tone, sure there was one in there because as I've seen the marketing at work on this board previously. This was further supported by others private emails that I subsequently received.
Further, you've certainly got a double standard for who's denegrating the site and complaints to the moderator. And you seem to forget that this thread is on a public site that I personally support. Why should I not challenge something that I see as a problem. And if this has been addressed before, why the big surprise and outbursts? If I'm wrong, then a quick explanation could make me look like a fool . . . instead you guys get hysterical.
Regards,
05-04-2005, 10:06 PM
#384
Drifting
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Villanova, PA
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jim
Since we are already reexamining some rules (i.e. moderators shouldn't ban someone, only John D. and Jenn), I suggest we also make a new rule that nobody should criticize, in an open thread, a member for allegedly violating the charter, but that any such comments should directed privately only to the moderators, who can deal with it as they see fit.
I am sorry, really I am, but I can't let some of this stuff fly under the radar.
Jim, you have been regiestered for a year. One of your friends who makes a nice avatar for you has a bit of a rough time that some admit is a little 'gray area'.
Then you feel you have to right to propose new rules, conditions, ammendments to the charter, points of order and the like? The you want to make a special status for a member who takes and posts pictures? Come on man, get over it.
NO ONE here will argue actual facts with me. If the powers that be dont want to enforce the the laws already on the books, that doesn't change the fact that the law is broken. Once again, its a simple fact. But just like its not a democracy for us peons to vote in new management, nor is it a democracy for us peons to propose changes to the constitution. I realize that has never stopped liberals and activist judges from trying, but hopefully the rennlist community is a little stronger than that.
05-04-2005, 10:09 PM
#385
Lifetime Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by fbfisher
will you listen to John D. the owner of this site? He has answered your question for you - he uses one of Alan's "werks" as his avatar. That should end all questions of Alan's motives, ethics or agendas.
Originally Posted by fbfisher
will you listen to John D. the owner of this site? He has answered your question for you - he uses one of Alan's "werks" as his avatar. That should end all questions of Alan's motives, ethics or agendas.
Originally Posted by E. J. - 993 Alumni
Perhaps this should not be overlooked or dismissed?
JoAnne
Last edited by RJT 993; 05-04-2005 at 10:32 PM.
05-04-2005, 10:13 PM
#386
Drifting
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Villanova, PA
Posts: 2,331
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mnmblu
You know the same goes for you too EJ. All you guys, because you are in the same sh tty little click have to stick together huh? You make it sound like I am violating your board.
IT AIN'T YOUR BOARD OR ANY OF YOUR OTHER OLD SCHOOL DEAD BEATS, IT IS JOHN'S BOARD AND HE HAS CLEARLY INDICATED THAT HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH MY WATERMARK, NO MATTER IF IT IS MY WEB ADDRESS OR A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO YOU. SO GIVE IT A REST ALREADY.
YOU GUYS ARE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE AND THE FEW OF YOU IN YOUR LITTLE CLUB HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT SHOWN ON YOU NOW. WE SEE YOU CLEARLY. THIS IS OUR FORUM NOT YOURS.
YOUR TIME IS OVER.
IT AIN'T YOUR BOARD OR ANY OF YOUR OTHER OLD SCHOOL DEAD BEATS, IT IS JOHN'S BOARD AND HE HAS CLEARLY INDICATED THAT HE HAS NO PROBLEM WITH MY WATERMARK, NO MATTER IF IT IS MY WEB ADDRESS OR A SPECIAL MESSAGE TO YOU. SO GIVE IT A REST ALREADY.
YOU GUYS ARE FIGHTING A LOSING BATTLE AND THE FEW OF YOU IN YOUR LITTLE CLUB HAVE THE SPOTLIGHT SHOWN ON YOU NOW. WE SEE YOU CLEARLY. THIS IS OUR FORUM NOT YOURS.
YOUR TIME IS OVER.
Well, guess what, the gloves are off and its going to be an all out war. I have brought about the demise of greater men and web boards - some here even know about this. I will not stop until you and your sh t bag pictures are wiped from the servers and the memory of all who come here.
You just fired the first shot in a war that I promise you won't be over until I fire the last one. And don't think this will stop at a web forum.
Nighty night you *****.
BTW - how's your wiring harness you no-good photchop hack?
7 pages and counting . . .
