Gelatomonster

Christer

What about the titanium valvetrain who made it?.

Seems to me you have a more potent machine than even 993RS.

Thks

Christer

As the work was carried out by 9M, they supplied the valvetrain...so whether they have somebody that makes it especially for them or what I don't know....

I guess the differences between cars are not so great in real terms. In straightline acceleration a UK 993RS owner tells me that he 'walks away' from standard 964/993's on the striaghts and a 996GT3 walks away from him. I guess unless you have a LOT more horsepower then that is what happens. I was out yesterday with some other 964's and noticed that off a roundabout where the standard C2 has the jump by say 2 seconds (as he is in front) my car catched up rapidly before the end of 2nd gear (the gear we exited the roundabout) so I can change early at 6K, and then into third where I have to modulate the throttle so I don't end up in the backseat of the car in front - so it seems to have a lot more performance, but how it compares overall who knows...

How my car compares to anything on a track though is obviously anyone's guess...

As I said on a 964 thread this morning, the best thing is that my car now pops flames every so often (and that alone makes it worth the money... )

Gelatomonster

OK I will be waiting for your update on track experience.

Wow flame

drool drool I love flame

NineMeister

Going back to the post subject for a minute:

In my opinion, if you have a perfectly serviceable 3.6 993 engine, either VR or non-VR, you will be wasting your money going for a 3.8 conversion unless you incoprporate other modifications at the same time. In Christer's case the 3.8 conversion made sense because he had an old style 964 engine that needed barrels & pistons for a rebuild, in all other cases I would say stay with the 3.6.

We have had the benefit of sorting out a few conversions that others have done, the classic example was a 993VR that came in with slip-fit 3.8 cylinders, RS cams and ecu done by a firm in the London area. The car as arrived made 278bhp on our dyno. With the standard VR ecu program it made 283bhp, and after resetting the cam timing correctly and a live remap on our dyno it made 314bhp, which is not too shabby.

However, this result has to be kept in context of our results with standard cars. Around the same time as the remap of the 3.8 we also live remapped two 3.6VR engines, both with just sports silencers fitted. One made 308 and the other 309bhp. Similarly we have also worked on the non-VR engine recently and found 300bhp and also after fitting them into 3.2 Carreras came up with results from 305-313bhp with various exhaust configurations (no cats). On this basis the 3.8 conversion does not make sense.

Lastly, the 993RS engine with its bigger intake valves/ports/VR system struggles to make 300bhp in standard form. The best result to date following a remap is 317bhp, but with our sports cam & spring package we see 330, indicating that the engine needs more cam lift & duration to make use of the oversize ports.

Christer's engine is effectively a 993 3.8 non-VR with slightly wilder cams and smaller intake ports, making around 350-355bhp.

kris

Thanks for that insight Colin, much obliged. As a sidenote I came across a colleague of you here in Belgium who's also into Porsche beside BMW and who has the following nice figures on his site.
993 3.8 Supercup st I 342 hp - 411 Nm MOTEC
993 3.8 RS st I varioram 364 hp - 405 Nm MOTEC
993 3.8 Free sliding throttle 400 hp - 432 Nm MOTEC
964 Turbo Free 1 turbo 545 hp - 764 Nm MOTEC
All pretty impressive to the layman that I am but probably not so for you.

Caveman

Hi Colin,

When you talk a live remap are you referring to tweaking the car's chip to suit that particular car? If so is this possible on a 1995 C4?

Thanks and regards,

David

NineMeister

Yes, a live remap is where you have the car on the dyno, run an emulator programme live on the ecu and rewrite the control software to optimise the performance whilst the car is running. Possibly unlike others, we do not just program the full throttle load sites (which unfortunately seem to be the only criteria with which people take an interest), we also program most part throttle sites from 1000rpm upwards and hence produce a fully optimised 3D fuel & ignition tables. Our usual charge for this is £500+VAT including dyno time, although the 993 with driveblock is £600+VAT because there is more work to do on accessing the ecu and programming.

Caveman

Thanks Colin,

I appreciate it.

Regards,

David

Flying Finn

When was it again that you open up the shop down here in South Florida?

NineMeister

Make me an offer.......man am I sick of driving in rain!

Flying Finn

Picture from our November Key Largo drive, as you can see it get's cloudy here also...

John H

Pictures like that make me wonder why I live where I do.

akolodesh

Cmon John,
Ohio rocks! Who needs the ocean and all that fresh air anyway?
I think a Ninemeister shop needs to open here in Ohio. I will be your first customer for some engine mods

porkapig

agree with everyone above - cost of upgrade is not worth the expense - however i have a 3.8 x51 - cost a few grand more than a 3.6 and already had the LWFW LSD and shorter ratio box.
suggest shopping around to find a x51 or a lhd TT?

NineMeister

No offense, but I hate you.