aof

So, after much bantering-'oh my $30K wxr does 0-60 in 4seconds and is more fun than your P-car blah blah blah', a work collegue of mine and I agreed to swap cars yesterday. His is stock, with an aftermarket rear anti sway bar and light weight pulley. Mine is stock, with new So2as-225/45-F and 285/30-R on 18s, GT2 Strut brace, M030 suspension with RS alignment settings. Oh BTW, just installed Steve W GIAC ecu-very smooth, with low end punch. First, I drove his, with him in the passenger seat. Lovely exhaust note-no growl, mushy breaks, overassisted steering with some body roll. Stock gear travel much shorter and more precise than my 993. Hardly any turbo lag, pulls nicely to redline (love the turbo whine). Neutral balance- infact, I felt dizzy after going so fast around a known local corner-(another 993 owning friend and I frequently "test" our suspension set-up here). I was amazed at the Gs we pulled. Overall, the car did NOT feel faster than our 993. Considerable less poise too.

Then we swap- he driving mine, me in passenger seat. What a growl our cars have! (MS, with turbo tips). You couldn't wipe the smile off his face. Now he wants one- made me drive his missus in it. She loved it too. Anyway, So I drove through our "test" corner again (in my car). Considerable understeer and less speed. Now, that surprised me. I thought my car was neutral-until now! In comparison, if my friend's 993 with stock (non sport) suspension on 17s understeer was 6 out of 10, mine was a 3, his wrx was 0. Pls excuse my lack of technical knowledge here- this is best way I know to communicate my experience

To you suspension/track gurus; what would be the most cost effective and least intrusive way of fixing this understeer?- TT sways vs RS sways. Tires are new, so different sizes are out for now. BTW, my pressures are 32F, 36R

Overall, the experience re-confirmed the finesse, the fun factor and the precision of our cars-and I love it

cabrio993

WRX's are a lot of fun for your buck...but 2 things...

1) Doesn't have "The Smell"
2) Doesn't have "The Soul"



Also, you are comparing a 9 year old car vs a brand new one.

rkass

Nice write up - always interesting to see how our non-race set up cars do against other nonporsche cars. AOF, do you have stock sways? I'd let you drive mine with RS sways but too long a drive to make it happen. Curious to hear what the suspension gurus think..

texas911

Nice, but your cars aren't "stock".

kkim

cost effective... IMHO, just change your rear sway bar for a ROW m030 bar. IIRC, it's 20mm and when I started playing with suspension on my car, that was the first change I made. It really balances out the car and retains the compliance of the stock setup. If you find you want more, you can get the 21mm euro TT rear sway. Want even more?? drill out the end of the bars w/ another hole to increase the leverage of the bars like the RS bars have. These bars can be found brand new at the parts counter for about $125 plus bushings and is a basic 30min swap with your old rear bar.

Yes, the stock setup understeers a lot. You never notice it until you start really pushing the car. Be aware though, once you start playing with the rear sways, you're a gonner and the slope awaits you for further upgrades.

Concerning the WRX, when I was shopping for my 993, the other car I was considering was the STI. In the end, it's a hot rodded economy car and feels like it. Let's see how well it holds it's value in the market place. I love my 993 and have no regrets on the choice I made.

rkass

Kelly, is it a mistake to install the front sways (like I just did) along with the rears?

rkass

Sorry, RS Sways

kkim

I wouldn't call it a mistake, however, he asked for cost effective and what I suggested to him, to me, will make a marked diff in handling for not much $$$. With regard to the larger front sway, IMHO once you install larger bars, compliance will suffer. I know there are those that argue that they won't, but from my experience, they definitely give a harsher ride... even in a straight line.

What's been your experience w/ the RS bars?? Did the car get harsher after they were installed? For very high speeds, (ie. race track) I think the RS bars would be a great investment as they make the car much stiffer at the greater forces the car is being subjected to. There is no free lunch, however, and compliance will suffer.

I have the TT 21mm front and 21mm rear bar on my car, and I can say the car is much more neutral handling than stock. However, it has gotten a lot stiffer and a bit harsher than the excellent stock ride I had before they were installed. It depends on what you want and what you are willing to give up to get what you want.

aof

rkass- thanks, yes, stock US M030 suspension and sways

kkim- thanks-just the kind of response I was hoping for. are you saying the ROW M030 sway bars are thicker than the US M030? if they truly are 'better', then I'd probably go down that route, since I have ROW M030 springs. BTW, love my car; Non, je ne regrette rien

rkass

I wouldn't say car got harsher. It very well might have, but with the H&Rs lowered, I can't remember what stock felt like. It definitely is a tight ride and you feel everything, so you are probably right. Fortunately I like the feeling as long as it isn't jarring which it isn't. Your post got me wondering if I am exacerbating an understeer characteristic by thickening up the front as well as the back. I really won't be able to tell until car gets aligned re: setup. Will let you know once car is settled.

BobbyT

The WRX goes like stink, looks like stink.

kkim

IIRC, regular US bars are 20f/17r. Euro M030 bars are 21f/20r. Euro TT bars... 21f/21r. Don't recall what US m030 specs are. Did the car come with these from the factory or added after it was purchased?

As you can see, only diff in the euro bars is the 1mm increase in the rear bar. The 1mm increase makes a big diff in how the car handles. If I were doing it all over from start, I'd go straight to the 21f/21r TT bars. You asked for a cost effective way to reduce understeer. IMHO, pairing the 20mm m030 rear bar with the stock US 20mm front bar yields excellent results for minimal $$$. If your car already has a 21f bar, you should consider the 21mm TT bar to reduce understeer.

aof

Yes, suspension is factory US M030 set-up, later lowered with ROW M030 springs (by me). So, the real question still is- the difference btw US M030 sways and ROW M030. Probably the same-no? Any one knows?...

TIA

swmic

I second BobbyT's comment!!!

I have M030 springs, Gert's HDs, and the euro TT sways on my cab. I am very happy with the setup and would highly reommend it. The ride is stiff but not harsh, about what I would expect for a 993. I have not found the limit on the street as far as understeer or oversteer. Maybe it's just neutral. Roads are pretty narrow here in PA with telephone poles usually only a few feet off the edge of the road. I'll have to wait for a DE sometime to find out for sure.

gordo993

FWIW - I traded my WRX for my p-car. While it was a fun car (daily driver) I walked away from it and never looked back.