perrys7342

With some of the elevated prices paid by members on this forum, the price (not necessarily the perceived value) "bubble" may have burst with the sale of the 1998 C2 Cabrio at the Barrett-Jackson auction in Scottsdale.

Advertised in their advanced sale flyer was a Jade Green 1998 C2 Cabrio with only 240 reported miles, which the owner indicated as a $90K plus MSRP new car which he described as one he thought he would drive forever.

Going over the block, the Speed Vision "Expert" Commentators (Brock, Keith, Bob, even Alain on the floor) didn't even notice it was a Tiptronic, commenting mainly on the "unusual" color with a couple of comments on the seals, etc drying up in a 7 year old undriven car.

When the hammer dropped, it only sold for a reported $59K plus buyers premium which should make the owners, new and old, widely happy and miserable at the same moment.

Somewhat unbelievable since mid year 1963-1967 Corvettes, which I sold when new for $3800-$4600, were hammered down as sold for $125K-$165K!

Again, the foreign iron, including Ferraris at this auction, were somewhat "bottom feeders" while the American Muscle sheetmetal drew record prices.

Perry (42 plus years of Porsche Ownership and Counting)

kdurg

I can't believe a '98 993 Cab Tip with 240 miles selling for $59k suggests a "price bubble burst" for 993 models. Especially when compared to a 30yr old Classic Vette. You're comparing apples to oranges.

How about suggesting a perfectly restored 993 in the year 2028 will go for 6 figures !!!! Now you'd be on to something.......

Flying Finn

You're could be right abput the "price trend" but I'll bet in 2040, that 1998 C2 (if in as good condition as those Vettes) would sell for more than equivalent of $165.

Johnny_B

Perry;

I saw this on Speed as well - However, I think it should be noted that the B-J Auctions are geared mainly toward American Muscle cars and seem to frown upon the foreign classics. This is in their best interest as driving up the price on domestic iron is how they will make the most $$. Lets face it, there are many more domestic hot rods in the US than there are foreign big $$ autos...

This strategy was demonstrated several times during the show: On one segment they pointed out that a special Farrari auction in Italy which managed to gather many classics for sale in a fund-raiser could only muster up $4m - then they pointed out in comparison that the US domestics at the B-J so far brought in more than that with relatively unpopular models. It was clear they are trying to drive up the market of the more plentiful backyard brands. They do this with their reality show also...

This all makes sense. In Europe - where there are not as many US hot rods or classics - the local European cars pull in much more $$ (Looks at the big houses like Sotheby's etc)...Can't blame B-J at all for their strategy.

mjsporsche

Perry,

Interesting observations. I have always believed that the Barrett Jackson auction prices are indicators for collector car pricing. Not an absolute gauge but a good measure for trending. Late model porsches are not of high interest for collectors. Maybe the rare 959 is a recent model Porsche that has collector appeal and that model is more than 12 years old.

The incredible market rise in American Muscle is feeding the baby boomers that always wanted one and can now afford the high cost of entry. They are terrific but get behind the wheel of one, and the magic disappears for me when you are riding on your door handles when apexing a turn. Many years ago, I drove a 1969 Charger RT (440, six pack) and it was a monster...good and bad. 30+ years of automotive technolgy has surely changed the landscape for me. I would never trade my 993 or any of my BMWs for old Detroit Iron because I am not a collector but a driver.

Now, IF I was a collector......for investment purposes the ROI on muscle cars can be an interesting play. Far better than what I think the stock market will do over the next year.

Mark

Johnny_B

Mark makes a great point about the collectors...did you happen to see that many of the bidders on the high-end muscle cars were wearing Farrari caps and shirts - obviously fans of the Italian Stallions but paying big dough for US tin...

A guy down the street from me owns a mint M&M Green Charger - it is louder that Supercups and ugly in my opinion - but he has more offers to buy that thing around here than I would ever get on my 993!

177mph

Considering that "most" 993 cabs are pricing in the mid 30's - I think 59k is pretty good!! Yes - our 993's will start to be priced lower in the coming years - but I think the rate at which that happens will be slower than other cars (996's etc)

My .02

mjsporsche

Hey Johnny B,

Do you know where I can get a PPI done on a Green Charger? Naaaaaaaah...I'll pass.

Mark

Bull

I wasn't surprised by the Tip Cab hammer price, given the audience, as described above, and the prices Tips are bringing today. Check out European Collectibles for a red tip cab that has been on their site forever and has been lowered in price many times. Now at $28,500 and still not selling.

I didn't like the Muscle Cars in their day. But, I sure had a lot of fun with them in 1968 when I bought my first 911 (911L) and was living in the foothills outside of Seattle. About once a year we would hold a "Speed Run" from Seattle (UW) to Ellensburg, over Snoqualmie Pass (now I-90). Typical participants were GTOs, Chevelle SS 396s, Boss Mustangs, Austin Healeys, a Corvair Monza, etc. Loser bought the beer. I had many a free beer from Muscle car owners....if they made it!

Having to follow a State Trooper ("I have been trying to catch you all of the way down from the Pass, doing 100mph, and couldn't......") to the JP's "office" (house) in Cle Elum and peel off some cash would really slow one down!

Texas993

Hey guys. I saw that cab. Friday when I was at the auction. I didn't really think it was a 240 mile car. Some cars on this forum look a lot "newer".

The knock on that car was the color(s). There was a whole lot of green: top, interior, exterior. May not have been everyone's favorite combination nor "collectible". Just my opinion.

I agree, the American muscle cars were selling at incredible prices. I watched the auction for about 30 minutes and saw several American cars go for over $100k. Amazing.

This is not the show for European cars. The cars they had were not top-notch. That is what I usually go to see in this auction, and every year I see fewer and fewer. But, I can't resist going!

The 73 Carrera RS with 23k KM was a disappointment on the block, it only got $90k. I saw the car and talked to the seller briefly. Consensus was that it should have sold for $150k.

Saw a few rough 914s, a couple of 356 variations and a 928 GTS. That was all for the Porsche world.

Don't think that price was indicative of the market.

Mark in Baltimore

993 price bubble burst?? I'm not sure I follow your logic on comparing forty year old Corvettes to less-than-a-decade-old Porsches, nor do I think one can make a sweeping generalization of the market based on this one event. The cabrio is seven years old, no matter how few miles it supposedly has. How much were those 'Vettes going for seven years after their inception? Even if one asserts that $59K for a '98 cab is a bargain, one can look at the green color and tip tranny as having hurt the value.

SKM

I saw the car at Barrett-Jackson and spoke to the seller about the car. He said he bought it used in 1998 from his doctor who had two 993 cabriolets. He drove it only "30 or 40 miles" since then. He told me that he was hoping it would sell for $75K. He was not present with the car to respresent it on Wed, Thurs, and Friday and arrived shortly before the car was moved to the auction block. No documentation was provided prior to the sale to prove service history, etc. IMO, the observations in the above posts are accurate. Barrett-Jackson is not the best auction to sell a european car, however many of the european cars sold for strong prices, but not the Porsches. The buyer has an 8% buyers fee on top of the block price making the selling price closer to $64K. The car was jade green with a green interior and tiptronic transmission, not a top-tier color combination. Probably had deferred maintenance issues, although I don't know that for a fact. Had window tint on the side windows. I saw the window sticker ($96K) and some of the accessories/features on the car such as the yellow brake calipers were not on the sticker so they may have been dealer installed. It was all original (no paint work, etc.) and showed no flaws. So the price probably is pretty good, all things considered.

dp2boy

I think the '73 RS going for only $90k would let viewers know that the B-J is not the place for premier european iron. That seemed like a steal if the car was original and sorted out.

mrhude

I agree with mjsporsche. A thousand years and another lifetime ago, I bought a demo 1969 Camaro Z28 with all the toys for about $ 2,200.00. The reason I bought this car is because my father wouldn't co-sign on a loan to buy an original 550 Spyder with three extra twin cam engines and the original log book for $ 2,500.00. I have always loved Porsches for as long as I can remember and I have always regretted not figuring out a way to purchase this car before it was sold. My father's wisdom was to buy "American" or buy nothing at all!!!!! I kept track of this serial number and saw it listed in Panorama about ten years ago for $ 385,000.00. The sad part is that this car was originally on the market for about a year and no one wanted it, except me. Back to the original story, the Z28 was very fast , but brutal. Over the last thirty years I have always wanted both cars again and I had the occassion to drive a restored 1969 Z28. The memories are much better than the reality!! The technology and creature comforts have come so far that I don't think I could ever enjoy this car again. It still brings back good memories, but keep your hands off of my 993!!! I can't imagine it getting much better, however, I remember saying that about the Z28. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. . .

paradisenb

BJ is an auction attended by baby boomers. These guys/gals grew up having and hoping to have these American muscle cars. Now as they try to relive the past, rekindle the memories of their youth, and can afford to buy them, they are paying whatever it takes to try to recapture 'that lovin feeling'.
I can imagine 30 years from now that auction will be filled with hot rod ricers, Hondas, Toyota, Evos, etc. and they will be pulling unbelievable prices. Kids today love these cars as many of us loved the 454 Chevelle. Todays youth would not even consider buying those 'old' cars.
A green Tip - Cab? Give me a break. Yuck! 996 Cabs sell because they are Posure vehicles. Automatic, cupholders and heated seats, oh my.