Suspect your Varioram not working? It could be ...
12-11-2004, 08:47 PM
#76
I decided to try Jeff's repair and I think it works well. Found the same tubing he used, 13/32 brass, cut it as he did and inserted the tube in the part. The part is really easy to remove and replace, takes about 2 minutes.
Here's a photo of the cut tubing with a ruler behind it to give you an idea of size.
Here's the part with the tube inside and some lines to show where it sits.
Thanks for the idea Jeff, seems like a good fix. I'll be interested to see what the
revised part looks like as well.
Here's a photo of the cut tubing with a ruler behind it to give you an idea of size.
Here's the part with the tube inside and some lines to show where it sits.
Thanks for the idea Jeff, seems like a good fix. I'll be interested to see what the
revised part looks like as well.
Great details Bruce!
12-12-2004, 02:01 AM
#78
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Originally Posted by CentralCoastC4S
I decided to try Jeff's repair and I think it works well. Found the same tubing he used, 13/32 brass, cut it as he did and inserted the tube in the part.
You are now the designated left coast repair specialist! I'm glad to hear it worked out as well for you as it did for me.
BTW, I have shipped about half a dozen of the brass sleeves out to the west coast... I may outsource that part of the country to you!
12-12-2004, 02:05 AM
#79
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Originally Posted by Jeff96-993
I have shipped about half a dozen of the brass sleeves out to the west coast...
Last edited by kkim; 12-12-2004 at 02:03 PM.
12-12-2004, 02:12 PM
#81
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PCA technical response
I've been following this thread with interest. My splitter was also collapsed - I couldn't find the right diameter brass pipes, so I wrapped the exterior with some wire I had, to prevent it from deforming and that seemed to work as well to keep it open. However, not understanding what the splitter connects to and what the 3 tubes are going to or controlling I find frustrating. If someone understands this plumbing and how it would affect the varioram activation, please share this knowledge. I'm also very skeptical that it affects the varioram performance. I did post to the PCA.org technical section a question about the part to see if they could shed some light on it and received a response indicating it would likely have little effect on performance but might affect an check engine light, perhaps belonging to the charcoal canister fuel vapor recovery system. I'd post the reply here but don't want to violate any PCA.org copyright policies. You can find the actual info on it on the tech section by seaching for varioram collapsed hose.
bill
later,,,,,,,,,
here, I checked with them and PCA.org said they had no problem with posting the question and response here:
bill
later,,,,,,,,,
here, I checked with them and PCA.org said they had no problem with posting the question and response here:
Area: 964 / 993 / 996 incl. Cup cars
Classification: Engine
Subject: 1997 993 varioram collapsed hose
Question:
A recent post on the Rennlist site pointed out that the vacuum splitter for the 96-98 993 varioram system is often collapsed in cars due to softening of the rubber splitter. I'm not sure if that is the right name for it, but its far into the engine compartment up high and on the left-hand side of the engine. When most listers checked, indeed it was collapsed in the middle, as was mine.
My question is..... is there truly functional significance to this appearance? There are 3 tubes that connect into the splitter and no one has really explained what they control and how the system is supposed to function normally - so its not clear how this might affect the varioram system. None of us have hooked up a manometer to the device or dyno'd to actually see if replacing the rubber part does anything meaningful. Can you shed any technical data on this?
thanks
Answer:
Yes there really is functional significance to the appearance. Generally when a pipe or hose is collapsed it means that some percentage of its designed cross section is gone. Actually I am superstitious, I believe that when a vacuum or breather hose is collapsed, it won't work.
Dyno tests would not likely show us much, if anything. The vacuum lines and breather hoses are used for things other than straight power output. There are a number of splitters and check valves and other interesting plumber's helpers in there. Several of the splitters are actually T-fittings with a venturi design, to speed up the airflow in one direction, to increase the pull on the other two. I am guessing yours belongs to the charcoal canister fuel vapor recovery system. If so you could be looking for a check engine light that you don't need to have coming on.
Do yourselves a favor, replace the hose before we have to give this a name like VRCHS (VarioRam Collapsed Hose Syndrome).
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 12/12/2004
Classification: Engine
Subject: 1997 993 varioram collapsed hose
Question:
A recent post on the Rennlist site pointed out that the vacuum splitter for the 96-98 993 varioram system is often collapsed in cars due to softening of the rubber splitter. I'm not sure if that is the right name for it, but its far into the engine compartment up high and on the left-hand side of the engine. When most listers checked, indeed it was collapsed in the middle, as was mine.
My question is..... is there truly functional significance to this appearance? There are 3 tubes that connect into the splitter and no one has really explained what they control and how the system is supposed to function normally - so its not clear how this might affect the varioram system. None of us have hooked up a manometer to the device or dyno'd to actually see if replacing the rubber part does anything meaningful. Can you shed any technical data on this?
thanks
Answer:
Yes there really is functional significance to the appearance. Generally when a pipe or hose is collapsed it means that some percentage of its designed cross section is gone. Actually I am superstitious, I believe that when a vacuum or breather hose is collapsed, it won't work.
Dyno tests would not likely show us much, if anything. The vacuum lines and breather hoses are used for things other than straight power output. There are a number of splitters and check valves and other interesting plumber's helpers in there. Several of the splitters are actually T-fittings with a venturi design, to speed up the airflow in one direction, to increase the pull on the other two. I am guessing yours belongs to the charcoal canister fuel vapor recovery system. If so you could be looking for a check engine light that you don't need to have coming on.
Do yourselves a favor, replace the hose before we have to give this a name like VRCHS (VarioRam Collapsed Hose Syndrome).
Joel Reiser - PCA WebSite - 12/12/2004
Last edited by clib; 12-12-2004 at 06:14 PM. Reason: new information
12-12-2004, 06:37 PM
#82
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Bill,
I don't see anything that's definitive in the PCA response, just some general statements that's all. Things like "I am guessing", etc.
It would be great to have someone with the vacuum hose diagram for the engine actually point out the collapsed part... but I think the first post in this thread noted that a tech discussion at Callas pointed this problem out... they had seen it before.
Also, I have not heard that anyone has had a check engine light come on from this, which leads me to believe that it's something other than the charcoal canister fuel vapor recovery system.
I don't see anything that's definitive in the PCA response, just some general statements that's all. Things like "I am guessing", etc.
It would be great to have someone with the vacuum hose diagram for the engine actually point out the collapsed part... but I think the first post in this thread noted that a tech discussion at Callas pointed this problem out... they had seen it before.
Also, I have not heard that anyone has had a check engine light come on from this, which leads me to believe that it's something other than the charcoal canister fuel vapor recovery system.
12-12-2004, 07:01 PM
#83
Rennlist Member
Jeff,
I agree. i was just expressing frustration with not really knowing what we are 'fixing' and how the system works in the hopes of getting a more informed idea of what this connector is doing I checked another source. Perhaps someone with access to service manuals can see what is going where.
bill
I agree. i was just expressing frustration with not really knowing what we are 'fixing' and how the system works in the hopes of getting a more informed idea of what this connector is doing I checked another source. Perhaps someone with access to service manuals can see what is going where.
bill
12-12-2004, 08:49 PM
#85
Rennlist Member
If someone understands this plumbing and how it would affect the varioram activation, please share this knowledge. I'm also very skeptical that it affects the varioram performance
. But, I do know that there are two electronic switch over valves for the varioram that get a vacuum signal. They also get an electrical signal from the electronic fuel injection control. From the workshop manual I was able to identify the three "targets" of the vacuum signal being distributed by the rubber T thingy.(orange text). I labelled a picture i posted in an earlier thread. (taken of a partially disassembled engine at Callas)
EDIT: if anyone wants to know where i found some of the vacuum line info in the shop manual...
VOL. I Engine
section 24: Fuel System, Electronic Injection
page 24-21a
and pages 24-29 and 24-27
max
Last edited by max911; 12-12-2004 at 09:05 PM.
12-13-2004, 01:02 AM
#86
Rennlist Member
Anyone else noticing 1-2 mpg less gas mileage as a result of this collapsed rubber splitter? Maybe just my lead foot.
12-13-2004, 01:28 AM
#87
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Originally Posted by max911
I will start off by saying my 'understanding' of the varioram system is very far from 'guru- worthy'
Thanks for looking it up!
12-16-2004, 11:27 PM
#90
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Originally Posted by Terry Adams
I picked up my car at my independent's shop late this afternoon just before closing time, so not as much detail here as I would like to give you. His manager told me there is an updated part they are waiting on next week from their parts distributor.
He said he could have gotten the replacement from Pelican Parts, but it is not the revised version. Now I am curious what the revised version is like and who sells it. I will let you know as soon as he gets it. Maybe it has a 13/32 brass ring inside it......
He said he could have gotten the replacement from Pelican Parts, but it is not the revised version. Now I am curious what the revised version is like and who sells it. I will let you know as soon as he gets it. Maybe it has a 13/32 brass ring inside it......
TIA