RutgersU

Before my 993 I had an BMW and frequented Roadfly.com which I am sure most on this board know is full of immature posts. This board is becoming disturbingly similar.

Scrolling down the 993 board it is difficult to find any informative posts. I would propose an OT section for such non-informative posts such as:
1. Playstation questions
2. Post your stats (ie. brag about yourself and what you own)
3. Kiddie "kill" stories

Possibly even a "Kills" section.

Even Ray Calvo appears to be MIA lately with all the OT posts. I really miss his grumpy, yet informative posts.

Just for fun, lets watch as my rating plummets.

Robin 993DX

John thank you for bring that subject up,

I think we already have a place where "OT" subject and discussions can be carried out.

That's under the subject "General" under "General" forum.

Maybe no one is aware of that?


<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

mags993tt

Think a lot of the OT stuff on the board is labelled as such so is avoidable if one wants to avoid it. Also guessing that a lot of it is relevant/interesting to many of the users on the board otherwise no one would answer.

It also spices up the board a little. Pure techy stuff could get a little dull and from what I've seen the maturity levels here are high enough not to have to impose too much on posters freedom to post whatever they'd like to share with their fellow 993 owners. Just my 2 pence

RutgersU

Robin,

The problem is that the OT posts are permitted to remain on the 993 board. I thought, maybe with a section labelled OT it would help direct traffic.

I certainly dont blame the moderator for not moving posts, it would be alot of work. Besides, it's his board and he knows the type of website he wants it to be. I'm sure he has reasons, even if it is just a matter of him enjoying OT type posts. Again, it's his blood and sweat that makes this board possible so whatever he wants, he should have.

Mdrury

It seems to me that whenever things go OT here, most of the respondants do so with their tongue planted firmly in their cheek. Surely that's one of the defining qualities of this board? As for the "I killed an F150 on my Playstation, how big is yours" posters, they rarely "get" that they're making themselves the object of the humor and ususually get bored quickly. Let's kill them with kindness and good humor.

Hank Cohn

John:

I too had a BMW for a while and, as such, had a very similar experience on the board you mention, however, it seems that most of those people enjoyed those posts and the board was what they wanted it to be. In the end, the majority rule. As I watch this board change course, I understand that the board will and should change if the majority of its users wish that to happen.

I don’t think anyone wants a purely technical board as that would eliminate or at least limit the collegial environment that we have enjoyed so far. For example, we like to pick on Ray as being our resident curmudgeon and keeper of sane and solid advice, Robin as Mr. P-Car, the DIY guy and E.J., D.J., Anir, Viken, Greg and other personalities that we all acknowledge as experienced and knowledgeable posters that from time to time we have fun with.

I agree with Kim that an OT Section probably wouldn’t work. I also think, in general, that the text of a topic is pretty predictable given the title of the post. Like you, I don’t like topics about personal stats. I think that is very gauche but given the number of respondents, I am in the minority and, I read it! I really don’t like the “kill” stories as I think that gives all Porsche owners a bad reputation, but again, that is my personal bias as I think that I am above that kind of behavior and it should be saved for the track. Again, I read those posts too.

What’s my point? You guessed it, I don’t have one. I think boards do a pretty good job of policing themselves. Topics are fairly representative for the text that follows and we can choose not to read what we don’t want to read. If we don’t like the general direction the board is taking, there are other almost unthinkable alternatives. I think the best we can do is lead by example.

In the end, we are what we write,

Hank

CC993

I guess somebody has to say this but there seems to be a direct correlation between the price of these cars and the quality of the posting...in the last two years, the age of the participants in this forum has seemingly gone down precipitously as 993's have become more affordable...not good or bad necessarily, just the way it is...

STLPCA

John
While I agree w/you in concept, I don't think it's practical, nor will there likely be a consensus, to limit postings.

- Who makes the subjective determination of what is OT? Extremes are obvious, but there's much in the gray area.

- There's no moderator to serve as enforcer. Except for a few instances where John D has stepped in, the Board's self policing has been effective. I'm not fond of censorship & think an ability to openly express (even stupid, though not hurtful) thoughts is good. I prefer an open Board, even at the expense of personal aggravation.

- Some non-tech content is a nice balance & adds humanity. For many/most of us, P-car ownership involves much more than just the car.

- Posting/posters/subjects that I find aggravating may be perfectly fine w/others & that is, and should be, my problem.

E.g.: Self perpetuating posters where the same person has 30-50% of the thread posts because he answers his own questions and/or responds to or acknowledges every other poster in the thread.
OR
Individuals who, usually in the midst of a thread, communicate about personal subjects of no interest to anyone else, instead of using regular/private email.

- I tuned out of Audiworld because of all the immature, mindless crap. I hope Rennlist doesn't sink to that depth, but if it does, it will do so because the majority want it that way.

Thanks for the opportunity to rant. Now that I've relieved myself of the "burden" of keeping up my stars, I feel empowered.

Jeff 993TT

May I humbly suggest that this topic is OT as well?

I agree with the others that the board will become what the members want it to be. So far, I feel that seperating this board in a dedicated 993 only section has done wonders in reducing OT traffic.

If any of you guys can remember when we had the old combined 993/996 board? There were many off topic discussions every day and many heated discussions ones too, as well as really good technical information.

I also like the personalities on this board too, and I feel that if it was too overly technical, it'd get a bit dry after a while and people would stop visiting.

No one person embodies all information, and we all can learn from each other, so I feel that the more people that we have, the better information that we can get. If that means living with a few OT posts here and there, I'll do it.

Just my $0.00000002


Jeff

B-Line

I feel that I have to take some responsibility for the direction change this board had taken in the past few months. I do not think I am entierly responsible but I am aware that I have posted some topics that have made some rennlisters upset.
I have gotten personal emails from a number of members who have asked me to moderate the topics of my post. I have also had other Rennlist members who encourage me to continue sharing my uncensored enthusiaism to share stories and ideas.
The conclusion that I have come to in the past few weeks is that there is a happy medium.
I was going to delete my post on the F-150 kill which was probably a bad idea to post. Given I had just gotten my car two days before I couldn't help wanting to express my enthusiasm for the joy my new Pcar was giving me.
But I also quickly recognized how many people responded to that topic and wanted to join in on the conversation that probably did not belong on this board.
Writing kill stories is certainley immature. But do you remember your first week with your new car?
In conclusion, you can make some of the people happy some of the time, but you can't make all of the people happy all of the time.
I know that many of my topics walk a fine line between what some people want and what others don't.
I want to be considerate to the veteran members of this board but I also wish to be able to enjoy a forum where open mature dialogue is encouraged.
This is not the board for "which color is faster"
and I hope it never comes to that.

So I guess posters like myself in time learn to moderate posts, but I also think some of the veterans do get some enjoyment from the fluffy posts that encourages a little personal involvement, not just techie stuff.

Just my opinion..

RutgersU

Dan, Hank:

I've notice on other MBs members volunteered as administrators to help keep topics on point and also to move topics to a more appropriate forum. Perhaps this isn't feasible on this board. I'm sure if it was the moderator considered it long ago, as he is undoubtedly much more knowledgeable about this topic than I am.

I am not suggesting that these posts be eliminated, just suggesting a more appropriate forum. I've lurked on the Viper forum OT section. When you go to an OT section you pretty much know what to expect, kills, bragging, etc.

I agree the posts can simply be ignored if one so chooses based on the heading, but a lot of bandwidth seems to be wasted. You can also find information on Roadfly and Audi, I'm sure, but you have to wade through alot of "what's your favorite fast food" type of posts to get it.

If there was an OT forum, perhaps we could politely direct the poster to that forum as more appropriate for his topic.

Robin 993DX

[quote]Originally posted by zmC2S:
<strong>I guess somebody has to say this but there seems to be a direct correlation between the price of these cars and the quality of the posting...in the last two years, the age of the participants in this forum has seemingly gone down precipitously as 993's have become more affordable...not good or bad necessarily, just the way it is...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Lonn,

Hats off to you! "we are not worthy.....we are not worthy...."

As what you said is something we have concluded "privately", but are not worthy enough to post publically.

I recently have also suggested (privately) that I should add a new section to the p-car.com web site call “All the posts that never made it"... Sort of like an area for all the funny and controversial posts that anyone have already spent the time to type up but decided not to post it because it is too controversial or that they don’t want to cause any flames, of course it will all be completely anonymous.

Because I have read and heard some really funny posts that will send people rolling on the floor.....



LOL!

**********************

OK! I've just created a new section in the p-car.com discussion for the "Posts that never made it". Here is the URL

<a href="http://robin.proboards.com/index.cgi" target="_blank">Posts that never made it</a>

B-Line

also,

Don't you think avatars also encourage some sort of personalized/bragging immature behavior.
And, what about all the instant Graemlins,
If this board were purely meant to be just for mechanics and DIY people, than why have



I like the fact that we have avatars now, it makes things a little more personal. But isn't it also a sign that rennlist is supporting some of the changes that we see on this board and that inevitably it was bound to happen.
otherwise, why the need for message icon's, graemlins, and avatars..

Just a thought..

RutgersU

B-line,

I think the little gremlins help convey the tone of your post. In other words what another person may intend to say in a joking manner will clearly be just that. Many times emails/posts are misconstrued because facial expression, vocal tones, etc are not evident.

Pictures of your Porsche in avatars or otherwise really isn't bragging since this forum is dedicated to the 993. Like others I enjoy pictures of different Porsches, although I am convinced that the 993 c2s only came in silver(my brother has one, so this is not meant to flame, as it is clearly the best color for the car). Although I don't think personalization with an avatar should be a justification for immature posts.

Anir

All good points, but I think a quick review of the current topics on the 993 board would reveal of lot of good technical information, with just a smattering of OT subjects:

On-Topic examples:

- The Kinesis vs. Fikse question
- UK Rennlisters meeting
- Anyone also have an NSX (not "off" topic at all in my mind, since I would guess that most of us admire, or even own, other types of sports cars)
- Car stalling
- Goodwood track day
- Repainting a 993
- Windshield squeak
- Trailering a 993
- RS suspension
- Wheel wax
- Social etiquette with other Porsche drivers
- High-mileage 993
- Sparco seat

In the same list, there are maybe 3 off topic headings. Perhaps, we are really doing OK?

BTW, I will certainly try to limit posts about my alcohol preferences (...Hiccup...) to more appropriate venues (perhaps a "Beer" section and "Whiskey" section are in order?) Even though, I have to admit that I am even more excited about meeting EJ and Ben now than I was previously!!! Hell, after over a year on Rennlist, I feel like I went to school with EJ. VIR, here we come!