Should I get upgraded sway bars?
11-09-2004, 09:57 AM
#1
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Thread Starter
Should I get upgraded sway bars?
I am about to have PSS9's installed. I have not tracked my car yet but I enjoy spirited drives in the countryside and might do some events next year. Do you guys think that the RS or TRG sways would be a big improvement? Will it make the ride too rough? I think my c4s come with thickers bars than normal?
I think I would save $100 in labor if I install them now with the shocks vs putting them in later. But I will save about $1,000 now if I don't install them at all!
All your opinions are appreciated!
Tom
I think I would save $100 in labor if I install them now with the shocks vs putting them in later. But I will save about $1,000 now if I don't install them at all!
All your opinions are appreciated!
Tom
11-09-2004, 10:59 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
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Tom,
I have a '95 C2 with PSS9's and RS sway bars, and a friend of mine has a '96 C2 with PSS9's and the stock sway bars. The difference between the cars is noticeable, but it is not like day and night. We both track our cars at DEs, same group, 4 (out of 5 being fastest/most experienced), and neither of us is way faster than the other. We both have some DEs under our belts, but we are not expert drivers by any means. A really great driver might be able to wring some more performance out of my car as compared to his.
Given the choice I think my friend would like upgraded sway bars, but he had other plans for his money. If it wouldn't hurt your budget too much I would spend the extra on sways, though I can't say they are an absolute "must have" item.
Sway bars don't really affect the ride of the car much, if any, unless the right and left side of the car are attempting to do different things. They kick in during cornering because one side of the car is having the suspension compressed, and the other side is being extended. About the only time you will notice swaybars while travelling in a straight line is when you hit a pothole. As one wheel drops into the pothole it will pull the opposite wheel down as well, through the sway bar. A larger sway bar will have a more pronounced effect in this kind of scenario.
Cheers,
I have a '95 C2 with PSS9's and RS sway bars, and a friend of mine has a '96 C2 with PSS9's and the stock sway bars. The difference between the cars is noticeable, but it is not like day and night. We both track our cars at DEs, same group, 4 (out of 5 being fastest/most experienced), and neither of us is way faster than the other. We both have some DEs under our belts, but we are not expert drivers by any means. A really great driver might be able to wring some more performance out of my car as compared to his.
Given the choice I think my friend would like upgraded sway bars, but he had other plans for his money. If it wouldn't hurt your budget too much I would spend the extra on sways, though I can't say they are an absolute "must have" item.
Sway bars don't really affect the ride of the car much, if any, unless the right and left side of the car are attempting to do different things. They kick in during cornering because one side of the car is having the suspension compressed, and the other side is being extended. About the only time you will notice swaybars while travelling in a straight line is when you hit a pothole. As one wheel drops into the pothole it will pull the opposite wheel down as well, through the sway bar. A larger sway bar will have a more pronounced effect in this kind of scenario.
Cheers,
11-09-2004, 11:06 AM
#3
Three Wheelin'
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TRGs will make the ride rougher. I love it though. There is certainly a compromise with these bars that you have to be willing to make. As a driver, you will most certainly enjoy them, passengers may not feel the same way though. Sway? What sway? 
The RS bars (23mm 20mm) will be more forgiving but about $300 more (when the TRG adjustable rear drop links are factored in). You should PM both Steve Weiner and Viperbob to get different expert opinions on this issue, since they install many of these.
The RS bars (23mm 20mm) will be more forgiving but about $300 more (when the TRG adjustable rear drop links are factored in). You should PM both Steve Weiner and Viperbob to get different expert opinions on this issue, since they install many of these.
11-09-2004, 12:09 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
If you think you're going to love tracking the car, get adjustables now. The RS bars are nice but the TRG bars are cheaper, bigger and can be adjusted like the RS' to make the ride a bit more comfortable if the ride is that important to you.
11-09-2004, 12:52 PM
#5
RL Technical Advisor
Just remember that adjustable swaybars are THE main tool for altering the understeer/oversteer balance of the car.
If you want to reduce the understeer (unwillingness of the car to turn in), you need a matched pair of adjustable bars.
If you want to reduce the understeer (unwillingness of the car to turn in), you need a matched pair of adjustable bars.
11-09-2004, 10:05 PM
#6
Pro
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Tom,
If you run through the threads I think you'll find that Steve tends to recommend the RS bars more highly, ViperBob is partial to the TRGs. In the end, I went with the RS bars. Oddly enough, Mark's used bars. Mark is one of the few guys I know who tracks his car (and drives it on the road) who has actually used both. I'm VERY happy with my choice. Mark is VERY happy with his. Some of the old complaints about TRGs that you may find in a search are probably out of date, so don't decide anything based on those. Only thing I know for sure is that doing it up front should save you more than $100 in labor, not only because of the work you'd have to do over but also because you have to do the 4 wheel alignment etc. again. Whatever you choose, I decided to do both at once and I think that was the best course of action.
Now, what will next year's upgrade be?
If you run through the threads I think you'll find that Steve tends to recommend the RS bars more highly, ViperBob is partial to the TRGs. In the end, I went with the RS bars. Oddly enough, Mark's used bars. Mark is one of the few guys I know who tracks his car (and drives it on the road) who has actually used both. I'm VERY happy with my choice. Mark is VERY happy with his. Some of the old complaints about TRGs that you may find in a search are probably out of date, so don't decide anything based on those. Only thing I know for sure is that doing it up front should save you more than $100 in labor, not only because of the work you'd have to do over but also because you have to do the 4 wheel alignment etc. again. Whatever you choose, I decided to do both at once and I think that was the best course of action.
Now, what will next year's upgrade be?
11-10-2004, 09:51 AM
#7
Three Wheelin'
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I can attest that the "clunking" sound people got with the old collars on the TRG bars is eliminated with the new collars. No unnecassary noise with the TRGs now.
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11-10-2004, 10:11 AM
#9
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
All your responses are appreciated! I guess I will get the bars, it sounds like I might regret it later if I don't and I did not take into account that a realignment would be needed if sways are done later. I just hope that they won't shake me apart.
Do you think that there will be a noticeable difference in the feel of the RS vs TRG bars since the TRG bars are thicker?
Why didn't Porsche put the thicker adjustable bars on in the first place!
Tom
Do you think that there will be a noticeable difference in the feel of the RS vs TRG bars since the TRG bars are thicker?
Why didn't Porsche put the thicker adjustable bars on in the first place!
Tom
11-10-2004, 10:30 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Tom,
You won't need a realignment if you just put on sways.
I didn't notice a huge difference between the RS and TRG's, but I also didn't do an A-B-A-B comparison. The TRG's are thicker so they should reduce roll even more if you decide to max out the stiffness settings.
The RS' are more expensive but should be less trouble to maintain than the TRG's with their collars. (Again, no collar isues to date.) For a street car, the RS' are great. I opted to go with TRG's since I was racing my car and had maxed out the settings on the RS'. I wanted the choice of adding even more stiffness on the track.
You won't need a realignment if you just put on sways.
I didn't notice a huge difference between the RS and TRG's, but I also didn't do an A-B-A-B comparison. The TRG's are thicker so they should reduce roll even more if you decide to max out the stiffness settings.
The RS' are more expensive but should be less trouble to maintain than the TRG's with their collars. (Again, no collar isues to date.) For a street car, the RS' are great. I opted to go with TRG's since I was racing my car and had maxed out the settings on the RS'. I wanted the choice of adding even more stiffness on the track.
11-10-2004, 10:42 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
[QUOTE=Mark in Baltimore]Tom,
The RS' are more expensive but should be less trouble to maintain than the TRG's with their collars. (Again, no collar isues to date.)
Mark
What kind of "trouble" is there in maintaing these bars?
Tom
The RS' are more expensive but should be less trouble to maintain than the TRG's with their collars. (Again, no collar isues to date.)
Mark
What kind of "trouble" is there in maintaing these bars?
Tom
11-10-2004, 10:52 AM
#12
Rennlist Member
Tom,
The RS bars have welded on collars while the TRG collars are bolted on. The welded ones are unlikely to ever break and will not need any tightening whatsoever. Anything that's bolted on can be, naturally, loosened. Also, there was an issue with squeaking bushings, but Viper Bob has some magic grease that he supplied me with that has mitigated those concerns. As Joe said, I'm very happy with the TRG's.
The RS bars have welded on collars while the TRG collars are bolted on. The welded ones are unlikely to ever break and will not need any tightening whatsoever. Anything that's bolted on can be, naturally, loosened. Also, there was an issue with squeaking bushings, but Viper Bob has some magic grease that he supplied me with that has mitigated those concerns. As Joe said, I'm very happy with the TRG's.
11-10-2004, 01:49 PM
#13
Does anyone have pictures of the TRG collars/bushings? They sent me two urethane bushings with no metal collars so this is why I am wondering what they look like. If you have any oictures please post, thanks.
11-10-2004, 03:00 PM
#14
Nordschleife Master
Just to muddy the waters:
Doesn't Tire Rack sell adjustable H&R bars for our cars? How do they compare (stiffness, adjustiblilty range, price) with the TRG and RS bars?
My opinion (as ApexL8 stated somewhere way up above), is that sway bar stiffness has little to do with ride quality... except when traversing speed bumps on an angle, or driving on unusually rough pavement. Mt concern would be more with the range of adjustability offerred by the various bars. It would be great if this data could be seen as a percentage compared to some specific stock bar at each of the adjustment points.
Doesn't Tire Rack sell adjustable H&R bars for our cars? How do they compare (stiffness, adjustiblilty range, price) with the TRG and RS bars?
My opinion (as ApexL8 stated somewhere way up above), is that sway bar stiffness has little to do with ride quality... except when traversing speed bumps on an angle, or driving on unusually rough pavement. Mt concern would be more with the range of adjustability offerred by the various bars. It would be great if this data could be seen as a percentage compared to some specific stock bar at each of the adjustment points.
11-10-2004, 03:18 PM
#15
Addict
Rennlist Member
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the option of M030 bars (go w/ the turbo option), which are much cheaper and pretty good bang for the buck. There's a thread that talks about sizes (https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=sway+bar).
The H&Rs are 26mm/24mm f/r, so thicker than the TRGs. There's a thread on these too (https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=sway+bar)
Search on "sway bar", there's tons of info and feedback, tips, etc.
The H&Rs are 26mm/24mm f/r, so thicker than the TRGs. There's a thread on these too (https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...light=sway+bar)
Search on "sway bar", there's tons of info and feedback, tips, etc.