What really happend to my Trans at Road America
09-25-2002, 07:08 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
What really happend to my Trans at Road America
Well the shop has pulled the trans to find out what the hell I did to it at Road America a few weeks back. Not good... 2nd gear and 2nd gear synchro, both gone. It looks like the synchro went first and the gear followed (rounding of the teeth) Shift sleave between 1st/2nd and 3rd need to be replaced and the dog ring on 3rd is also in need of replacement. All for the low low price of 5400.00 <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> Now this does include new LSD plates from Paul Guard to give the LSD a better bite than my worn stock plates.
Now I know it was my fault, having 2nd gear synchro fail. Not blipping the gas enough on downshifts to 2nd on high speed straights....
Why the sad post, only to pass on the advice to other track newbies or wannabe's 5 to 2nd downshifts should never be attempted until the double clutch is mastered or you pratice the hell out of heel toe'ing while working your way thru the gears. And for god's sake, make sure the clutch is in all the way before before you try and engage the next gear.
This is not ment to scare people away from the track. I am to the point where I am really pushing the car, I have about 40 track days under my belt and am now learning the mechanical limitations when one does not do everything right
My plan is not to do 2nd gear with steel synchros as first has to be done as well to the tune of 1200.00. I will now avoid 2nd unless it is the only gear to get me thru a turn and then I will make sure the revs are matched. I have steel synchros in the rest of the gears so I should be ok.
(Steel synchros are able to withstand more heat/stress and are less likley to fail)
I hope it is ready for Putman next weekend...
I need to go <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> in a <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
Now I know it was my fault, having 2nd gear synchro fail. Not blipping the gas enough on downshifts to 2nd on high speed straights....
Why the sad post, only to pass on the advice to other track newbies or wannabe's 5 to 2nd downshifts should never be attempted until the double clutch is mastered or you pratice the hell out of heel toe'ing while working your way thru the gears. And for god's sake, make sure the clutch is in all the way before before you try and engage the next gear.
This is not ment to scare people away from the track. I am to the point where I am really pushing the car, I have about 40 track days under my belt and am now learning the mechanical limitations when one does not do everything right
My plan is not to do 2nd gear with steel synchros as first has to be done as well to the tune of 1200.00. I will now avoid 2nd unless it is the only gear to get me thru a turn and then I will make sure the revs are matched. I have steel synchros in the rest of the gears so I should be ok.(Steel synchros are able to withstand more heat/stress and are less likley to fail)
I hope it is ready for Putman next weekend...
I need to go <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> in a <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />
09-25-2002, 07:44 PM
#2
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Eric,
I was under the impression that the brass syncros were able to withstand amateur stuff like DE's and club racing. So you don't think this is true?
BTW, sorry about the tranny.
I was under the impression that the brass syncros were able to withstand amateur stuff like DE's and club racing. So you don't think this is true?
BTW, sorry about the tranny.
09-25-2002, 08:45 PM
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Eric,
2nd gear at Road America?? I will have to go with you next time & show you how to keep your momentum up so you can use 3rd in those areas.
I remember years ago when I myself used 2nd...
Hey, BTW... I am to assume that you will be at Putnam early Oct?! Hope so, maybe you can teach me a thing or two! See ya there?
2nd gear at Road America?? I will have to go with you next time & show you how to keep your momentum up so you can use 3rd in those areas.
I remember years ago when I myself used 2nd...
Hey, BTW... I am to assume that you will be at Putnam early Oct?! Hope so, maybe you can teach me a thing or two! See ya there?
09-25-2002, 10:04 PM
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Michael B
I know you spec (wreck) racers are experts on mo, but...
Even thru turn 8?
What I need is your help to get out of second for the kink.
M in C
I know you spec (wreck) racers are experts on mo, but...
Even thru turn 8?
What I need is your help to get out of second for the kink.
M in C
09-25-2002, 10:32 PM
#5
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
[quote]Originally posted by kev:
<strong>Eric,
I was under the impression that the brass syncros were able to withstand amateur stuff like DE's and club racing. So you don't think this is true?
BTW, sorry about the tranny.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Kev,
Brass is good for DE's, not for club racing. I fell in with a bad bunch of guys (read fast), pushing the car very hard, should have been paying better attention to how I was shifting... In the top group of DE it is not far from club racing. We had a 962, a couple of 996 GT3R's and a bunch of race cars in our group. I have a great video going side by side with the 962 thru turn 5!
The guys in our group were only a couple of secs. off the D an C group fast lap times
MB,
Turn 5 is the only place I really missed 2nd gear, that up hill to 6 was killing me. 8 was not a problem in 3rd and I got faster by short shifting to 4th going into the carousel.
If PMNA has my gear in country, I will be good for Putman, if they have to bring it in from Germany then I am out of luck... I will know tomm.
I will be happy to learn all your tricks at Putman! I still have the video from Blackhawk, I will bring it to Putman, really...
Chitown Mike,
2nd in the Kink?
<strong>Eric,
I was under the impression that the brass syncros were able to withstand amateur stuff like DE's and club racing. So you don't think this is true?
BTW, sorry about the tranny.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Kev,
Brass is good for DE's, not for club racing. I fell in with a bad bunch of guys (read fast), pushing the car very hard, should have been paying better attention to how I was shifting... In the top group of DE it is not far from club racing. We had a 962, a couple of 996 GT3R's and a bunch of race cars in our group. I have a great video going side by side with the 962 thru turn 5!
The guys in our group were only a couple of secs. off the D an C group fast lap times
MB,
Turn 5 is the only place I really missed 2nd gear, that up hill to 6 was killing me. 8 was not a problem in 3rd and I got faster by short shifting to 4th going into the carousel.
If PMNA has my gear in country, I will be good for Putman, if they have to bring it in from Germany then I am out of luck... I will know tomm.
I will be happy to learn all your tricks at Putman! I still have the video from Blackhawk, I will bring it to Putman, really...
Chitown Mike,
2nd in the Kink?
09-25-2002, 10:59 PM
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Eric,
I truly hope to see you @ Putnam. I will be solo as all my "pals" bailed on the thoughts of attending the event. Oh & I am not kidding. I need your (& Gregs) help at Putnam. I have never gotten that joint "down." I spun a 930 there once... Is that good?
I know what you mean about turn 5 @ Road America and 3rd gear. But ya know... I tried both gears in my Spec car and ended up doing the lap record by using 3rd. I just REALLY had to carry speed. I have a very special way I enter 5 there to do it in a higher gear. I dunno if you would even want to try it at a DE.
Hey! The kink in 2nd... Now why did I not think of that!
Ya know... My pal Fred R C4S does not believe a word of it, but the kink was a snoozer taken flat in the 'ol Spec Racer. Some people will never believe its doable, but that curve is nonexistent in a true racecar (Flat out from 8 to Canada <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> ). It was doable in my ITS RX7 too, but was a hairy ride in my ITS 944. Almost not worth it in a street car. That is why I like the 2nd gear idea. Kudos' to Mike in Chi for the idea! 
And speaking of Mike... You bet man, like Eric says: "eight is great" when taken in third. Then short shift that baby right at the bridge and "mat it" through the carousel - and hold on!
Oh boy that track is good.
I truly hope to see you @ Putnam. I will be solo as all my "pals" bailed on the thoughts of attending the event. Oh & I am not kidding. I need your (& Gregs) help at Putnam. I have never gotten that joint "down." I spun a 930 there once... Is that good?
I know what you mean about turn 5 @ Road America and 3rd gear. But ya know... I tried both gears in my Spec car and ended up doing the lap record by using 3rd. I just REALLY had to carry speed. I have a very special way I enter 5 there to do it in a higher gear. I dunno if you would even want to try it at a DE.
Hey! The kink in 2nd... Now why did I not think of that!
Ya know... My pal Fred R C4S does not believe a word of it, but the kink was a snoozer taken flat in the 'ol Spec Racer. Some people will never believe its doable, but that curve is nonexistent in a true racecar (Flat out from 8 to Canada <img src="graemlins/sleep.gif" border="0" alt="[sleep]" /> ). It was doable in my ITS RX7 too, but was a hairy ride in my ITS 944. Almost not worth it in a street car. That is why I like the 2nd gear idea.
Kudos' to Mike in Chi for the idea! And speaking of Mike... You bet man, like Eric says: "eight is great" when taken in third. Then short shift that baby right at the bridge and "mat it" through the carousel - and hold on!
Oh boy that track is good.
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09-25-2002, 11:10 PM
#8
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Michael B.:
[QB]Eric,
"I have a very special way I enter 5 there to do it in a higher gear. I dunno if you would even want to try it at a DE."
Closing your eyes and praying to the god of your choice does not count!
[QB]Eric,
"I have a very special way I enter 5 there to do it in a higher gear. I dunno if you would even want to try it at a DE."
Closing your eyes and praying to the god of your choice does not count!
09-25-2002, 11:16 PM
#9
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Holy Sh*t,
My wife just read that & said: "this guy knows you pretty well doesnt he..."
Cripes. I must be a nut.
When I look in the mirror I think I look normal...
Better look again.
Funny - funny stuff man.
My wife just read that & said: "this guy knows you pretty well doesnt he..."
Cripes. I must be a nut.
When I look in the mirror I think I look normal...
Better look again.
Funny - funny stuff man.
09-25-2002, 11:29 PM
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Michael B
Come to think of it, 8 was 2nd in the formula car, 3rd in the 993.
I'm usually so busy watching my mirrors for Eric I don't pay much attention to the transmission.
M
Come to think of it, 8 was 2nd in the formula car, 3rd in the 993.
I'm usually so busy watching my mirrors for Eric I don't pay much attention to the transmission.
M
09-26-2002, 01:25 PM
#11
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[quote]Originally posted by Eric in Chicago:
<strong>
If PMNA has my gear in country, I will be good for Putman, if they have to bring it in from Germany then I am out of luck... I will know tomm.
I will be happy to learn all your tricks at Putman! I still have the video from Blackhawk, I will bring it to Putman, really...
Chitown Mike,
2nd in the Kink? </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'll see you there! It's great to see that there will be more Rennlisters there. Unfortunately, though, my luck ran out. The parts that I ordered from Gert were severely delayed by DHL. They couldn't have botched the delivery any more if they tried. Anyways, my car will not be ready in time to get it to the track, and even it if was, I would be gunshy about subjecting new paint to the expressway getting there, and the rigors of track life. I'm still going to attend, and am bringing a non-p-car, DE newbie. We will be looking for you guys, and will be asking for lots of rides from instructors. I'll have my video and digital cameras, and will play camera man for the weekend (when not riding).
<strong>
If PMNA has my gear in country, I will be good for Putman, if they have to bring it in from Germany then I am out of luck... I will know tomm.
I will be happy to learn all your tricks at Putman! I still have the video from Blackhawk, I will bring it to Putman, really...
Chitown Mike,
2nd in the Kink?
</strong><hr></blockquote>I'll see you there! It's great to see that there will be more Rennlisters there. Unfortunately, though, my luck ran out. The parts that I ordered from Gert were severely delayed by DHL. They couldn't have botched the delivery any more if they tried. Anyways, my car will not be ready in time to get it to the track, and even it if was, I would be gunshy about subjecting new paint to the expressway getting there, and the rigors of track life. I'm still going to attend, and am bringing a non-p-car, DE newbie. We will be looking for you guys, and will be asking for lots of rides from instructors.
I'll have my video and digital cameras, and will play camera man for the weekend (when not riding).
09-26-2002, 01:55 PM
#12
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AJ,
Sorry to hear your car won't be ready. I wouldn't take a freshly painted car out there anyway. I will be glad to give you a ride and if you want to mount your camcorder on my car we can do that also.
Eric,
Can you just go with Paul Guard gears? If they can't get the PM gear call my mechanic and see if he by chance has what you need. He has 100's of gears in his shop. Brian Copans 513 779 3302.
MB,
I will be glad to show you around Putnam. I may be showing you the slow way around though. Hopefully BJZ will be there and he can really show you the quick way around, I will let him take you around in my race car if he wants.
Greg
Sorry to hear your car won't be ready. I wouldn't take a freshly painted car out there anyway. I will be glad to give you a ride and if you want to mount your camcorder on my car we can do that also.
Eric,
Can you just go with Paul Guard gears? If they can't get the PM gear call my mechanic and see if he by chance has what you need. He has 100's of gears in his shop. Brian Copans 513 779 3302.
MB,
I will be glad to show you around Putnam. I may be showing you the slow way around though. Hopefully BJZ will be there and he can really show you the quick way around, I will let him take you around in my race car if he wants.
Greg
09-26-2002, 02:09 PM
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Greg,
Sounds like this event is going to be sweet.
AJ / Eric & all. Hot dawg!
Hey... The schedule is central time - correct?!
Dang F1 race has me all messed up on that.
Sounds like this event is going to be sweet.
AJ / Eric & all. Hot dawg!
Hey... The schedule is central time - correct?!
Dang F1 race has me all messed up on that.
09-26-2002, 02:12 PM
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MB,
I am pretty sure it is Central time. Double check when you get in on Friday. You going to be at the Holiday Inn in time for beer and pizza?
I am pretty sure it is Central time. Double check when you get in on Friday. You going to be at the Holiday Inn in time for beer and pizza?
09-26-2002, 02:16 PM
#15
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Greg,
Thanks for the tip on Brian, I spoke to him and he had the gear in stock. My shop, Eurosport got the PM gear in today so I AM GOOD FOR PUTMAN!!!!
MB, I know nothing about the lines at Putman, never drove the track. I will be looking for as much help as I can get!!! I think we have a crew of 5 comming down from Chicago. Last event of the year for me, it's going to be a blast!
Thanks for the tip on Brian, I spoke to him and he had the gear in stock. My shop, Eurosport got the PM gear in today so I AM GOOD FOR PUTMAN!!!!
MB, I know nothing about the lines at Putman, never drove the track. I will be looking for as much help as I can get!!! I think we have a crew of 5 comming down from Chicago. Last event of the year for me, it's going to be a blast!