slapshot

It seems November is the month for us West coasters to try their hand at Willow Springs. After doing a search, I failed to find any definitive posts highlighting the qualities of each track. One driving compadre loves WSIS for the speed and wants me to come out with him. Another group (Alan et. al) is going to the Streets. Never been on a track, any thoughts on which track (Speedway vs. Streets) is most forgiving? No heros or trophies wanted in my situation, just want to have fun with the car incrementally w/out cliffs, telephone poles and oncoming traffic. Also, can't afford to swap paint and I don't necessarily need the thrill (risk of car damage!) of the track though it would be fun to open up the car a little.

Jauder, you said Willow was scary but fun, please explain if you can. Everyone else too. For those of us just getting into the fold, thoughts and observations would be most welcomed.

nman413

Sure. I went to Willow on my 3rd or 4th track day. The track itself is fairly imposing (I have not run Streets but Big Willow looks to be quite a bit bigger). This is a very fast track but fun once things click. Fast cars can do 150mph easy on the front straight. My car can do this but I cant coz I'm chicken. If you have not tracked before, having an instructor helps a LOT. JJayB (Jim Brady) is an excellent instructor as some others on the board can attest and whom I attribute to really helping me get comfortable with my car which being a Turbo has silly power.

I was there with other rennlisters for 2 days for a Tracquest event (expensive but well run). You might want to ask around about the groups, I have found that there is a wide variance to how well events are run, some are basically track time and others have more emphasis on instruction.

I was very slow on the first day to the point where OldGuy was posting I was getting passed by Miatas That went away the second day. However, if you havent done this before, focus on learning the lines first. Speed will come later. I'm still slow and have no natural talent with this so I have had to learn just by seat time. Seege on the other hand is out there ripping up the track

Last but not least, have fun! It will be fun regardless of the track you drive and get ready to be addicted to the rush. OldGuy can probably tell you where you can find a good trailer and truck for sale.

OldGuy

Slappy if your first track day is Willow streets youre porbably in good shape. the track is small and turny
and you should not get in much trouble. Big willow is too fast for beginners where Buttonwillow is too turny for beginners . Turny is better than fast for first timers. I may go watch that day. I think you should have fun either day. Just let me know so I can go show my support!! Alan is going on SUn??

nman413

Paul, what is this "watch" word that you speak of? I thought you had bought a trailer and were burning to go back to the track?

slapshot

Wow, thank you both for the input! Very very helpful! 150 mph type speeds, huh . . . I think a little too quick for me at this point! I'll find out more and possibly see everyone Sunday. Thanks again.

slapshot

Yes OG, I believe Alan and a few other of the Malibu/Glendora/Ventura run drivers who you have met are going Sunday the 7th.

mnmblu

Hey Christian,

You are not ready for the big track, trust me. That thing is way fast and for serious racing. Streets is a nice challenging twisty track that is loads of fun and in the clockwise direction you won't even get the car much past 100, if that much. Come on out on Sunday, it will be a good starter for you. An instructor will take you out in your car and show you the line and demonstrate to you what your car can do. Once you see the line after a few laps and study his technique, you should be able to emulate it on your own. When he feels confident that you can handle the car on the track, he will let you solo. It is more fun than you can imagine. No worries about cross traffic, kids jumping out, cops, and you have a line of vision at all time and in a controlled environment. Even if you have an off roady, you can't do too much damage, hopefully.

You will come away with great confidence in your abilities and knowledge of what your car can do.

Anyway, enough waxing poetic about it, just come on out and see for yourself, you will be hooked.

nman413

Well, you dont have to go that fast. =)

I doubt the novice group would go that fast.

mnmblu

Jauder,
I think, knowing Christian, that Streets is right up his alley, so to speak, if you get my drift.

Chrisian,
Just kidding of course, however, I do think I know you and your feelings about the car, your risk tolerance and I am sure that you would enjoy streets much better the first few outings. After all, you are new to Porsches and I don't think it has really been demonstrated to you the capabilities of your car yet. I think once you see what the car can do and practice a bit, then you can take it to the next level.

slapshot

Sounds great. Thanks again for the insights everyone. If I can pull it off time wise, I will definitley go for Sunday at the Streets.

ScottMellor

My take on the streets is different. It is very hard on tires, and you get to learn how to shuffle steer whether you want to or not because it is so tight.
I'm doing it as a necessary evil to get signed off on the short track series. I'll be unlikely to do it again once I'm done.
The streets, coincidentally, is the only place where my car ever sustained any damage, when at 100 mph on the front straight going CCW, someone went off of the track in front of me and I was struck by a piece of his car!
The skid pan IS a good place to practice throttle steering at the limit though, I will allow that.
Big Willow, well I've only done it once and Jauder pretty much nailed it.
It is often said that "beginners take the slow corners too fast and the fast corners too slow."
Well DUH! The first time I came up on turn one at 145 my eyes were as big as saucers and I did not need my harness to secure me to the seat as I had about 1 foot of fine supple leather up my bum.

kary993

Regarding speed at WSIR, GT3RS race cars get just about 155mph at the end of the front straight. Very few if any street cars will get anywhere near 150mph. I run 130pnh through turn 8 plus or minus 3 to 5 mph depending upon traffic and wind. The front straight I get to about 128mph. This is using a NA stock 993 motor. Again, even at these speeds a newbie driver will get into serious trouble if they push to those speeds at WSIR.

If you are new to a track I suggest you do streets. WSIR is a large track with difficult to find turn in and apexes. Stick with streets, it is a great learning track.

Craig W.

No one should have their first track day at big Willow IMO. Turn is 8 is to my knowledge the fastest turn.....well.....at least on the west coast.

Way too fast, much to easy for a nasty off. And the entire 7,8,9 turn complex is so fast a first timer will not learn much there except, hoepfully, a healthy dose of fear and respect.

More importantly, most of the turns at big willow are fast and difficult to approach the limits of traction (for a first timer). So you can learn a line, but not get as much experience learning the limits of your car and your driving abilities. Even the slowest turns (3 and 4) have a lot of potential trouble and I've personally seen 3 cars flip and roll over going wide in 3.

Streets is just right for a first timer, and if anything too fast as well. All tracks have potential for trouble, but Streets is the better choice by far.

kary993

California Speedway Nascar turn 1 and turn 2 coming off the front straight is faster than turn 8. Though turn 8 at willow is scary (130mph in my car) but once you get the line it is really turn 9 that is the issue. Going through the banking at California speedway at 140mph+ (my car) is far more intimidating in opinion becvause there is a big white wall. At those speeds the car is pulling outward even with the banking making it far more intimidating that WSIR turn 8. Just my opinion.

BTW, WSIR is the fast track in the west...in overall lap time, but california Speedway is far faster in top speed at certain points in the track.

ca993twin

It's been a few years since I've driven at the streets, but I've had a lot of track days at the big track at Willow. I echo Scott's sentiments... but at the same time, I think it is the ideal track for a newbie. It is where I'll be bringing Ryan (my 17-year-old) when he's ready to start tracking the Cobra. I also have seen a number of cars badly damaged at the big track, even in non-race events. As for me... I don't like the streets.