Bob - 95 993/C2

Just before it rained yesterday..of course...the driver's window came first part way and then fully down and will not go back up.

I'll be pulling the door cover this morning to try and determine the cause. Any advice or results of similar experiences would be appreciated.

I believe I can still hear the motor working when I depress the switch.

Thanks for all ideas and help!

Bob - 95 993/C2

Well, it's getting worse. I've got the side panel off and the sealer plastic pulled back part way and I've got what appears to be a window track in my hand...apparently rusted off its mounts but I'm not seeing exactly where it's from yet. Also, the bottom of the window itself...metal rail is fairly rusted and pitted. With the exception of these parts, things look okay. Was this rail originally a part of the bottom of the window?

LINK TO PICTURES

Worse news is that my Service manuals either don't have or are missing any and all pages concerning the driver's side window and it's operating mechanisms so I'm still not sure what I'm looking at. Any and all help or pointers apprecitated.

Ray Calvo

Bob, sounds/looks a bit ugly. Your window mechanism looks similar to descriptions of a window mechanism "update" done about 1980, when electric wondows started becoming popular (see pretty picture; one of the few times I'm uploading copyrighted material). So, you might need a Haynes or Chilton shop manual covering '80's vintage 911s to tell you about these things. ONe of my gripes on Porsche shop manuals;they only cover what was changed from previous models - so you need a complete set dating back to the '70's 911s if you want everything about your car.

Your second picture seems to show the plastic roller ends shown on the picture. Your third and fourth picturesI am guessing is the channel attached to the bottom of the window glass where the above rollers ride in. The rusted-out pieces sticking up off the channel I' guessing is what holds the window.

Might get more info if you buy the factory parts microfiche from my-porsche.com. Take the microfiche down to a library with a microfiche reader and preint out the relevant pages. I didn't print out the window info when I did mine because I didn't think I'd need it. Section 8/04/20 (electric window lifter), 8/04/25 (Coupe door glass frame), 8/04/30 (Cab/Targa door glass frame), 8/05/00 (Glasses). Only printed out the last one; shows the following parts attacxhed to bottom of the window:

911 542 491 40 "rubber ply" (looks like a gasket/protector between glass and below lifter rail)

911 542 057 00 driver's side window lifter rail

Now, why everything is so rusty bothers me. Was the car in a wreck?

Bob - 95 993/C2

Thanks a ton, Ray... your comments plus finding a picture on a British site now has me convinced that yes, a window comes with a channel along the bottom that the two sissor-like capstans fit into and raise and lower the window. I think all I need is a new window but I have to figure how to get the frame off the top in one piece to get the old window out and a new one inplace. I think the two torx headed bolts in the end of each door will allow the frame to lift right out?

Also, how to align the new window to install the raising and lowering mechanisms in the track.

As to the rust...it's only along the bottom of that window where the track was attached. No other signs of wear or damage...new paint/overspray, etc. But that track is completely rusted off and the bracket that holds the glass is totally rusted as well.

I'm gonna tear into the right side window and see how it looks next.

Any further corrections to my surmises or directions on how to remove and mount the new window very much appreciated.

Ray Calvo

Did some of this on my old '84. As I remember, front channel portion is held in place by a bolt around the bottom of the channel and another one right at the top of the channel just before it exits the door; I think there are two bolts on the angled portion of the door just in front of the quarter window (think the front quarter window is integral to the whole channel).

At the rear think it's all accessed along the door edge where the lock mechanism is attached.

Unbolt everything and pull the whole channel straight up and out of the door.

RE installation: I think you install the track on the rollers, then install the window/rubber "ply" unit into the track. Then the whole front/rear window channel gets installed in the door with the window in the channel.

Once again, I'm going from memory, which ain't the greatest at my age.

Paul M

For what it's worth, I once changed out the window motor on a 944S in a previous life - only to find that the motor was fine and that the mechanism had siezed.

I then removed the whole assembly which, as far as I can recall, resembled the new design illustration above.

I did not, however, need to remove the frame to get the glass out. It came out with some judicious wiggling, and by turning the glass through 90 degrees. For replacement I slid the glass back into the door the same way, sliding the runner over ONE of the rollers, turned the glass the right way and at the same time opened/closed the scissor mechanism to get the other roller into the runner before bolting up the locking piece. My memory is also poor, but I hope this helps.

--Paul--

Bob - 95 993/C2

New parts are ordered. For those interested, 99354201101 will give you new glass the metal lifting rail and a Rubber piece needed.

I still need some definitive guidance on how to remove the window frame to get the glass out if anyone can help me, please? The "wiggling" suggested by Ray will not do it. Car is a 95/993

Many thanks! (Joined the Rennlist today!)

Ray Calvo

Bob, from what I've read my impression is this whole window channel thingie on the 993 is the same as on any 911 since about 1980. Haynes makes a ahlfway decent aftermarket shop manual for this vintage 911; costs about $17. Might look around in import parts shop out by you or look at old standby J. C. Whitney site (www.jcwhitney.com) or amazon.com. Should tell you what you need to know if don't get answers via computer.

Bob - 95 993/C2

Ray, and anyone following along. I found the Haynes 911 book and it gave me some basic ideas. I've got the rearwards post freed (three 6mm hex screws). I've got the front most post free I think (three 6mm hex screws.) I'm now slowly working on the center post, being careful not to "over disassemble that which I do not fully understand. There appears to be some internal connectors for this one. I've already got one bracket in my hand that I have no clue where it came from or where it goes An interesting learning experience...but really fairly straight forward.

Afternoon update.

I decided to be a bit more muscular in my approach and without fully removing the window frame, I got the glass out.


MORE PICTURES

I was somewhat surprised to find the glass was not glued but just rests in the bottom metal piece inside a rubber sleeve. I think I can reuse the glass!

I still cannot determine why this piece rusted out. I'm guessing it may just have been a bad manufactured piece that, well, rusted. I'm considering putting a good coat or two of Rustoleum on the replacement part before installation.

I'll keep you posted as it would seem I'm in territory not many 993 owners have gone before.

Bob - 95 993/C2

Every project deserves a happy ending. I finally got the glass in properly. Here's the steps They appear to be unique to a 993 and easier in the long run as each bolt hole holding the raising/lowering mechanism has distinct holes vs. a "slot" so final adjustment is a snap.

1. Get the new glass with new track installed in the door with the frame all fastened back down.

2. Loosen, do not remove, the screws that hold the raising mechanism to the side of the door. You can see them in a pic in the link posted above.

3. Remove the screws from the motor mount to the side of the door.

4. You can now by raising the window with your hands (get a helper), using the switch, raise/lower the window/mechanism arms to first get the front of the track connected and then the rear.

5. Magically the holes for the motor line up perfectly and just reinsert the fasteners and tighten all fasteners.

6. Lube the rollers and track with some light grease. I used the Valvoline red stuff.

It really helps to see it done once. I hope all this explanation has/will be a help to someone else in the future. It can be quite a daunting job to the first timer!