B-Line

DC in Cod..
Do you really thing that your 1998 C2S w/ aero and Hollow Spoke is going to be worth THAT much more than my identical 1997 C2S w/aero and Hollow Spoke.. Now don't get me wrong, I'll give you an adjustment for being a year newer, but if you think the difference is that great, I think your nuts.

I have always said the same thing about buying a 993, you want the best deal, you have to find some idiot who trades in their car and the dealership has it. the dealer gives nothing on trade, they mark it up a couple thousand and you steal a beauty.

You'd be surprised how many people trade these cars in at a huge loss. I paid 51K for my car in Dec. 01 with 34k miles on it. Sport seats, aero kit, motorsound, hifi, you name it... and got it that exact way. Called everydealership in the country until I found one.

Also, I would trade my car for a 993 turbo anyday of the week (provided miles weren't too high and it was in great condition)

b

DC from Cape Cod

B-Line,

Define "that".....I think a 1998 does get a premium over a 1997 and I think the market reflects that.

I didn't buy mine to sell it, I bought it to own it, to drive it and to enjoy it. I don't think it will increase in value and I don't think it will hold its value...I simply think that it will depreciate slower than the other models. Some people, including myself, would not prefer a turbo...but could easily afford one. I do not think a 1998 C2S is a better car than a 1997 C2S but I do think the market prices it differently as it was the last year it was made.

If someone chooses to trade their car in then they won't get as much as they would if they sold it outright...we all know this. The upper end of the market is not determined by a trade-in value but by what these cars CAN be sold for...backed up by actual data.

Your car, as a 1997 model with 30K+ miles, would be priced differently than a 1998 with 13K miles....wouldn't it?

I have no personal stake in this, my car is not for sale...I am just trying to make a contribution and give something back to the forum on a subject that I can actually contribute to. Your opinion may differ from mine and I won't think you are nuts if it does.

laurence '97 C4S

IMHO, other than owning "the last air-cooled" car, (which only one person can own and his initials are JS) the distinction between MY'96, MY '97 and MY '98 is not the major force behind value retention. The main factor is condition, miles, maintenance, options and color.

I remember having a conversation with my Ferrari dealer on a similar topic. His view was always buy the early year on a series as it would benefit from increasing MSRP from the factory on later MY cars. I don't think the discussion of MY is significantly different here (unless you own "the last"). As time moves on, MY'96, MY'97 and MY'98 blur together. IMHO, it is money wasted to pay anything more than a modest premium for a '98 over the other years (all else being equal- ie, miles, etc.).

Kolbjorn S

Prices in the Gulf have been very stable for S cars - although they are few and far between over here. I bought my C2S three years ago for going market rate at official P-dealer in Dubai. Today I am likely to get a little bit more for it. A C4S for sale at the local P-dealer here in Muscat is offered today for $2k more than I paid for my 2S back then.

akolodesh

While we live in a market economy regulated by the laws of supply and demand (thank god!), I think a few of these sellers need to get themselves off the crack-pipe when it comes to the pricing of these cars. Though these cars are not rare they are also not commoditized and therefore will see a variation in their pricing, but $72K+ for an S variant of the 993?
Hey if someone wants to pay that kind of money for a NA 993 go ahead, it's their money. I think these sellers are simply throwing test balloons out in the market to see if anybody could possibly bite.
Personally, I think there should be a standard response to anyone trying to peddle a non RS variant N/A 993 for over $70k. I posted it on another thread but here it is again. Anyone is more than welcome to use it whenever they need .

nman413

Funny. I dreamt about driving a NA 993 last night

B-Line

DC.. Fair enough, I'll give you a mileage adjustment too. I've got over 40K miles. So that will not have the same value as a 13K mile car, that's obvious.
But I will state and restate.. beside of the adjustment for being one model year newer, I can almost promise you there is no difference in value between a 97 or 98 in equal condititon and equally equipped, equal miles.
Maybe in 50 years, but certainly not today. 993's although precious to us, are NOT hard to come by. These are NOT rare cars, They are not even that limited in production numbers. Yes that's true, even for the widebody. They made thousands of these cars..
and, lets just say for a second that there is a difference in price on two identical, a 97 or 98. That price difference would be so negligble, it's a silly argument.
What are we talking about $1K Maybe $1500 for identical cars with a difference of one model year.
I mean, do you really think a 98 will fetch $5K more??

Dr. No

I've noticed the same ambitious trend in pricing recently, and can't quite figure out why. There do seem to be more people who are on crack highs when they advertise their cars, however.

And I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but it would be good to stick to civil, non-obscene ways of communicating that an asking price is way too high; the other path leads to agro-vation.

DC from Cape Cod

B-Line,

That would depend on the buyer. I know that I would pay $5K more because a 1998 model is worth more to me than $5K is. I am certainly in the minority on this but I am know I am not alone. I was discussing this exact subject with a Porsche dealer this morning and his thoughts mirrored mine. There will always be a market for the perception of "best" or "newest", etc.

Example: We have a builder in town that charges about $400 per sqft for construction......and you could get the same quality work and materials for half that from another builder. This guy is ALWAYS booked solid though....because people follow the perception, not the facts.

The facts are that a 1996 C4S is essentially the same car as a 1998 C4S....but the pricing disparity between similar models with similar miles can be well in excess of $10K.

Bottom line - this is subjective and we vote with our wallets. If we value the model year more than the premium associated with it than we buy it...if not, we don't. I'm not trying to argue with ya'...just stating an opinion that differs from yours. Am I sure I am right....not at all.

<grin>

B-Line

OK.
I guess if that what's makes you happy. It's just too bad you didn't keep that last of the air cooled, pristine, hard to come by beauty - stock... Because then maybe it would really be worth more as a potential classic.
lol..

<Grin> back to ya

OldGuy

DC is pretty proud of his car but I can gaurantee this- They made more 98C2s than 97TT's and
there will never be a day that a 98C2S will be worth more than a TT 97 or 96 with equivalent mileage
condition. I wont call him nuts but that just doesnt make sense. HP means alot in resale.
In a few years, in alot of years, it aint gonna happen

B-Line

OG,
Don't get me wrong, I love my C2S.. I should get a license plate that says, NT4SALE with all the people that make me offers.
but I agree with you. I would trade my car for a comprable 993 turbo any day of the week and twice on sunday. Even if I had a 98 C2S and was buying a 96 TT.

and if there are any TT owners who disagree with me, I'd be happy to swap cars and even give them $5K - $10K..

OldGuy

B-line it jsut makes sense there were 600+ 97TT for NAmerica. But if you take anyone here and say here are your choices
98C2S widebody OR
97TT which by default is a widebody.
do you want 280HP OR 400HP with 400Ft pounds of torque. MOST people know the Turbo in its various forms was the pinnacle of the 911 variant that year. The 996 has some variants that are desirable like the GT3 and the GT3RS and RSR. But those are still more powerful than the normal
NA version of the 996.
In all cars that are desireable I know of none where the less powerful variant is more valuable than the more powerful issue of that model.( that doesnt mean there isnt one I just dont know of one)

DC from Cape Cod

B-Line,

I didn't buy mine with any consideration for re-sale...I bought it to enjoy it and it is a far better car with the PSS-9 suspension on it. It is a far more fun car with the Fabspeed....and that can be removed in 30 minutes.

OG,

A few years ago, a 1998 C2S was over $60K and a 1997 Turbo was over $100K. Now, a 1998 C2S is still over $60K and a 1997 Turbo has dropped by at least 20%. Why? Perhaps the 996 was viewed as a poor replacement for the 993 but the 996 Turbo was viewed as an acceptable replacement for the 993 Turbo. I don't know - it is all guesswork. My thought was that this would continue. But, like I've said a hundred times, I could easily be wrong. It is only an opinion, after all.

woodcock

Funnily enough, we seem to be witnessing exactly the same trend in Germany. It will be interesting to see what effect the launch of the 997 has on 993 prices. So far, prices haven't reacted yet. It seems to me that a number of 993 owners are just putting their cars on offer at somehwat optimistic levels - to put it kindly - to see if anyone bites.

Given that they don't really need the money, nor a replacement car - remember the average 911 owner has over 3 cars anyway - that explains why the gap between offer prices and actual trade prices, i.e. genuine values, seem to be widening of late.

There's a '98 993 Cab in black w/ black leather, 31K km, with a few additional extras, on sale nearby for €63.9k. That's probably about €10-15k, I'd say. The point is, it's been for sale for over 9 months now, at the Porsche dealer, hasn't been moved in the time, and the Cab season is basically over in Germany now.

So whoever owns it doesn't seem to really care about actually getting rid of it.

woodcock