Paul E. Dodd

Hi folks, looking for some advice on Konis for the 993, but first some background:

I autocross my 993 C4S both with the local PCA group and SCCA Solo2. My current suspension setup is bone-stock, and at 80k miles as far as I know my original shocks have never been replaced. High-speed transitions at PCA events are, shall we say, a little unnerving.

I'm poised on the edge of the slippery slope, but I run in SCCA A-stock class, which precludes the use of non-stock springs or non-stock rear swaybar (shocks are free, as is the front swaybar). Thus, PSS9's are out, and the most I can do for springs and rear swaybar is run USA M030's (ROW not allowed, has to be a US option for the car). I've searched and found some interesting threads in the autocross forum on Paul Kozlak's 993C2 setup. He's using the USA M030 springs and rear swaybar, plus a Weltmeister adjustable front swaybar and custom double-adjustable Konis. I know Boris Teksler has also worked with Koni to get some custom shocks made.

My questions:
1) Boris, if you're out there, can you give me some idea of $$ for the Konis (I'll call Paul McLaughlin per your post but wanted some idea)
2) Based on horror stories I found in the archives I will stay away from the "special adjustable 993 Konis" that Windward Performance is advertising. Thanks for the warnings!
3) Does anyone have a source for USA M030 springs (or better still have a set they'd like to sell)?
4) Any ideas on how well matched the Konis will be with USA M030 springs?
5) Will the TRG adjustable front swaybar fit in my C4S? Will I need to swap out the droplinks?
6) Or should I just go for the non-adjustable Bilstein HD's and a non-adjustable front M030 swaybar until I improve my skill level to take advantage of the adjustability?

Thanks in advance for your help/advice. Since I need to replace the shocks anyway, I'd like to get it right the first time and make reasonable choices that I can make use of as my driving improves.

Paul

FlyYellow

Paul,

My answers:
1) approx $400 for the rears and $200 for the front. you can have them custom valved to match the m030 springs.
2) don't know.
3) there are two sets on ebay at the moment. one is from todd at la porsche dismantlers. he wants $600 with shocks. he thinks they are konis but they are really m030 with monroes.
4) very well matched if you have them custom made to the spring rates.
5) yes TRG bar will fit, yes you will need new drop links and yes the trg bars come with drop links. call viperbob - 650.743.6801. i'll bet he has a set of m030 springs and a rear sway bar for you. or better yet a turbo rear bar. he has many turbos coming through his place. (no affiliation with bob, just a happy customer)
6) I like Koni's a lot butter. I've had good luck with Konis. I like the adjustablity. I know others like Bilstein.

Hope that helps.

Cheers,
Boris

nile13

Boris, so, did they start making rear Konis for 993 again? When I was checking a few months ago, they only offered fronts.

FlyYellow

Mike, no you have to buy them direct from Koni and they are custom made. The good thing is that Paul (from Koni) spent the 20+hrs designing my set and now he has a design. The reason they don't produce them as a standard product is because of tooling problems.

Cheers,
Boris

nile13

Thanks, Boris!
Not a bad price, then, about $600 for teh set. Or did you mean $400 and $200 each?

FlyYellow

sorry $800 for the entire set. i think it's a great deal for an adjustable suspension. although i don't think it is as good as the pss-9.

cheers,
boris

TroyN

I think the question too is whether your car will benefit from having a significantly thicker bar on the front than the rear (since I know you have the M030 rear). I would think this would only increase understeer on your car, which is terrible for autox.

Check w/ Sunset Porsche on the USA M030 springs. I got my ROW M030 rears from them for about $100! Not sure if price increased since then (about a year ago), with the rise of the Euro, but can't be that much more.

Paul E. Dodd

Boris,

Thanks for the info, that does help a lot. I'll probably be using your Koni setup soon, looks like a good deal for adjustable shocks compared to non-adjustable Bilsteins. I figured I'd be in touch with Viperbob eventually about the TRG swaybar, but didn't think about him as a source for the springs, thanks for the heads-up. Unfortunately, I can't use the turbo rear and stay in SCCA stock class. I assume the fronts are the cartridges and I'll need to cut down my original shock bodies per Koni's website?

Troy,

Understood and agreed on the understeer problem for autox. Got plenty of that already for sure! I'm sure for SCCA autox I'll have the front swaybar at full soft (or even disconnected?) to reduce understeer. But our local PCA "autocrosses" are sometimes much more akin to DE's when they're held at Albuquerque's road course. For those events, I'll want significantly more understeer. The conflicting demands of the two event types I run is exactly why I'm so interested in the adjustability, both in swaybar and shocks.

Next question: As Boris states, I'll want to have Koni match the valving to the US M030 spring rates. The only information I've found in the archives indicates rates of 164/280 (F/R) for the US M030. Can anyone confirm this from an authoritative source? Or is that close enough that I shouldn't worry about it further.

Thanks in advance,
Paul

FlyYellow

Paul,

Here is the spring rate info i have:

Here is the information I've been able to gather thus far for spring rates:
US factory M030 150-200 fr 225-275 rr
Eibach 7209 120 fr 200 rr
Weltmeister 180 fr 268 rr
H&R peformance 240-260 fr 280-310 rr
H&R coilovers 290-310 fr 350-370 rr
H&R supercup 310-350 fr 385-435 rr
BIlstein PSS-9 225-250 fr 400-685 rr
"Motorsport" 600 fr 800 rr

on the fronts, yes you will need to hack saw them. i'd recommend filling them with oil when you put the new inserts in. you won't need to do this for the rears.

i would certainly get an adjustable RS or TRG sway bar for the front and then the m030 sway bar for the rear.

Hope that helps...

Cheers,
Boris

Paul E. Dodd

OK, thanks. I'd seen the 150-200 fr 225-275 rr rates but it wasn't clear to me whether that was for the US M030 or just the standard US (non-M030) shocks.

Next stupid question- I did a quick search and didn't find an answer. What kind of oil do you use in the shocks, or is that covered in Koni's information? Sorry if that's a really dumb question!

Thanks yet again,
Paul

911sickness

Paul,

If you are interested in the USA M030 springs, I have a set from my car with only 20k miles. They were replaced with RoW springs. Perfect condition. $150.

abar

Thinking of Bilstein HDs and Euro M030 springs. What is the spring rate for the Euro M030? Did a quick search but couldn't find them.

Also any info from Bilstein on what range of spring rates the HDs work with?

Thanks, Al.

Paul E. Dodd

911sickness,

You have a PM.

Thanks, Paul.