Feehliks

No, sorry, didn't receive it. Would you mind mailing it again or mailing it to mimi.hase[at]freenet.de, if it contains additional information?

Best regards,

Felix

Anir

Gary,

The e46 M3 will only "eat" 993's if you are talking about straightline speed. As others have mentioned, the M3 brakes are not up to the task at the track and the Bimmer also suffers from excessive weight and a lack of steering feel.

There are plenty of new cars that are faster, and more practical, than a NA 993. IMHO, this does not make them better nor more desirable as a sports car. As a grocery getter, maybe. As a people hauler, for sure. What makes the 993's special is their durability, solidity, road feel, braking ability, and handling. Those are arguably truer measures of performance unless you are simply a drag racer at heart - something Porsches were never designed for.

You have obviously not kept up with the E46 M3 engine failure story. Our example was driven as sedately as any daily driver sedan by my wife. Never over-revved, as BMW confirmed when reviewing the data. Although BMW's initial stance was that these engine failures were due to over-revs, my dealer explained to us that they have sinced determined it was a manufacturing defect and not due to user error. That is why most of the failures were in cars manufactured during a relatively short period of time. And, why BMW has indeed covered "**** like that" in every case that I have seen.

Cloud964

I had an E-30 M3 years ago, awesome car. I traded that for an E-36 M3 when they first came out. A mistake. When the E46 arrived, I test drove it and was pretty disappointed with it. All high tech and no soul. Even the steering felt artificial. I want a car that performs well and make me feel good at the same time. The E30 M3 did it for me and also an air cooled 911.

Edward

I cannot speak to the M3's reliability, but this point Anir raises is precisely what makes the 993, and other 911s, such a passionate choice for their owners. I've been in "breathed on" WRXs and various Ricers, some of which were genuinely impressive track appliances. While these deserve respect in their own right, a 911 is more than the sum of their performance stats; it is the sum of their performance. And right out of the box, to boot. Unlike many cars for their day, and most every car today, 911s are truly impressive machines that were designed from the onset for serious performance over the long haul. This is in no way meant to disparage the M3, a car I have always loved and like many here even considered (e36) before my 993 purchase, but it is just a different car. If I could have both, I would; if only one, the decision is clear.

Edward

flatair

Wow you guys are a tough crowd! I've never driven an E46 but I hear it's a very nice car, maybe not up to track duty in stock form like the 993 is, but sure enough for the street. I used to own an E36, loved that car. I'm sure it's not as trackable as a stock E30, but then again I also owned a 73 911S. I never even thought of comparing the two, apples and oranges. Basically, if you need the space, M3. If you want a true sports car look, 993 (although the M3 looks pretty sporty to me, just in a different way). If you don't really care about either of those, then you have to just drive both and make a decision - end of story.

Anir

Flatair,

I loved the E36, as well. A friend owned a Dinan-massaged example. In fact, my experience with his car and another friend's E30, coupled with the glowing initial journalist reviews of the E46, are what led me to plunk down a deposit on the 2002 M3 without having driven one.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and we 993 owners tend to be fans of an older, less high-tech design with fewer electronic "aids". However, if you drive an E46 M3, I think you'll be disappointed with its bloated, vague, disconnected driving feel. Cloud964 pegged it as "artificial". I don't understand why BMW would want to make the steering so over-boosted and light. It takes all the fun out of what could otherwise be a great car.

All of our cars are arguably too much for the street. In the U.S. at least, the hp war is becoming a bit meaningless, IMO. I had first dibs on the 2005 M5 at our local dealer, but cancelled my deposit because I just can't see what I'll do with 500 hp in a daily driver. I'm going to buy a 1992 MB 500E instead and "invest" the difference in a dedicated track car.

abar

Don't think we're being harsh, the E46 M3 is a very nice car. It's just the 993 is very special, so are E30 M3s as drivers cars, IMHO. Handling, ride, brakes, engine sound, steering, lack of driver aids all add to the experience. As a modern fast saloon the E46 M3 is nice, though for that purpose I'd have an E39 M5. Took one to France yesterday, when I need a family car, think this will be it! They have so much more character, reasonable rear seat space and a lovely soundtrack!

A good E30 M3 would complement a 993 quite well. Thinking of either a 944S2/Turbo or E30 M3 as a dedicated track car for next season.

Phil, thanks for the info. I was at Lugano earlier in the year, some lovely roads around there!

Cheers, Al

CP

Anir,

You took the words right out of my mouth.

I have a E39 M5 as my daily driver, and I found that car too 'gedget-laiden'. I yearn for the days that a push of a button will get me a direct result. I hate the ****-twist, button-push, ****- twist, button-push, repeat/repaet/repeat type of deal. I find the 'modern' BMWs, MB, and even Porsches, way too technology-dependent. May be they think the 'modern' buyers LOVE these high tech features. I can't stand them. My absolute least favorites are: Idrive (BMW), Active Steering (BMW) and electronic-brake (MB). I don't see the manufactures abandoning this trend in the near future. As such, my M5 and my RUF will not be replaced for a looooong, loooooong time.

I won't touch the E60 M5 as I can't stand the design, the Idrive, and SMG only. I never liked the 996, and I don't think the 997 can be more fun than my RUF. MB is not on the horizon, even though I do like the look of the SL, a lot.

CP

rmani

Took the words right out of my mouth in just about every aspect of all cars.

Speedraser

Anir,
Very well said, as usual.

Everyone,
FWIW, the NA 993 remains a very quick car even by the latest standards. C&D's road test of a '95 Carrera recorded 0-60 in 4.7 seconds, 0-100 in 12.1, and 0-120 in 18.3. Yes, an e46 M3 will beat that, but the margin is very small.

rmani

wow I've never seen faster than low 5s 0-60 on an NA 993. Those times are pretty close to an e46 m3.

nota_troll

Well. Since I went from 993 to M3 I'll chime in.

My E46 M3 is a great daily beater. Fun fast but not as involved or intoxicating a drive as my 993. Things I do like better is the torque and backseat (so does my daughter) of my M. The 993 is more agile and engaging a car. The M is a great compromise.

Different cars for sure! Your E36 is no match for a 993. To answer your 'question', my E46 will give a run for it's money. Porsches 911 are sneaky quick. Their performance delivery is surreal.

rmani

wo wo assuming you're talking to me I never said or even thought my e36 could match a 993. The overall thread was to compare my friend's e46 M3 to a 993.

abar

Performance car also did 0 - 60 in a 993C2 in 4.7 I believe. Could someone with an old copy post the figures?

Thanks, Al.

traveller09

I have 2 911 books that quote the 1995 C2 0-60 at 5.4, I like your numbers better! I think the books are quoting the factory and I have heard that Porsche always conservatively underestimates their numbers i.e. speed, HP and such.