Any opinions on where to get reliable price guides for the various 993 models? I see asking prices all over the place and often wildly (IMO) optimistic.

Whats the feeling on the effects of mods on value? things like l/w flywheels ,suspensions, wheels, brakes etc.

 

In my experience, vehicle guides, like asking prices, can vary wildly. Most dealers use NADA guides to set retail pricing. That said, I find NADA to be a bit out of touch with fair market on Porsches at times. Kelly Blue Book seems an often quoted source by consumers and dealers alike, though folks rarely "grade" the vehicle in question accurately, thus skewing the pricing.

Modifications are VERY much a personal thing, IMHO. To the right person, tasteful modifications CAN add to the vehicle value, but the challenge is finding the RIGHT PERSON. A dealer will rarely, if ever, consider mods to be an added value on a vehicle. On the contrary, many dealers will shy away from a modified car.

How to value it?
I would take NADA retail value (adjusted appropriately for options & mileage) and KBB value (appropriate value category adjusted for options, mileage AND condition) and average the two. Personally, I would not add or subtract for modifications.
Obviously, there are times when this formula will not be indicative of "fair market value" and outside factors must be considered, BUT, banks, insurance companies and auto dealers use these guides when considering value and they, therefore, must be considered a reasonable source for pricing.

my 2 cents, anyway,
Brenton

 

Late model, low mileage widebodies are commannd prices well above what some consider to be fair market value....but nice examples are still bringing in over $60K. Cab prices seems to have a wider range and the same seems to be true to the Targa's as well.

 

What is the consensus? Does the premium for widebodies decrease as mileage increaeses (50+ miles)? It seems like big premium for widebodies are mainly on low mileage (30k miles) cars. Then again, these cars are so rare, not many data points.

 

Most of the premium I see is on cars with under 20K miles....it seems to fall off quickly over 30K.

 

Value IMHO is a result of supply and demand. Books can say whatever they want and I believe that they are an effective tool for dealers to buy used vehicles cheaply and make a ton of money when they turn them around. While the guides could be usefull on normal cars so to speak, I think they should be thrown out the window when it comes to specialty cars like ours. The fact is that there is demand for the 993's been the last aircooled ete etc and they do not make them anymore. So obviously a late model outstanding example with low miles will fetch big bucks. Same thing is happening with Ferrari's for years now. Look at an 85 412 and an 85 Testarossa. Both V12's both Ferraris, both low volume examples, both similarly priced when new. There is at least a 30-40G's of difference now between them however just because of model value perception. In our minds a TR cannot be compared with the 412. Furthermore look at what is happening with the late model 928's... they are incresing in price!!!
So the market of the 993's is as such. It is simply as high as a buyer is willing to pay...
Finally when it comes to mods, different strokes for different folks. When I was looking I wanted certain mods and I was prepared to pay for them. Could not find them, my car came along and I went for it. Others could not care less... If you have the luxury of time to wait for the right buyer you may find that there is one that is willing to pay for the mods. If you are in a hurry most likely you will get a hit on them unless you are lucky.

 

No easy way for pricing these things. I don't care what the books say. Your best info source is right here on this site, you just have to be willing to spend the time and study, send some PM's and look on ebay reading only the "reserved reached" status cars and doing some calling yourself to find out what the bottom line is.

 

I don't think our cars lend themselves well for the commodity-like pricing of KBB or NADA. 90% of the Honda Accords out there are probably very similar in spec, mileage, and ownership (the other 10% are two inches off the ground, have a wing that'll put a 747 to shame, and is loaded with 1000 lbs of Amps and speakers...not that I'm stereotyping of course).

I've seen prices all over the place, probably because of the condition of each car and the timing of the seller and buyer. My bet is that the lower mileage stock cars will hold their value in the long run better than the modded types and there is something to be said of having the last air-cooled pre-mass produced 911.

Oh yeah, supply and demand too. 996s prices continue to tumble. We know that late model 993s are worth more than even 2000/2001 996s. Soon, even '95 993s might be worth more especially as dealer start dumping existing 996s to accomodate the 997s, which then depresses the prices of other 996s in the market.

Probably the one source that I would *not* consider as a reference is Bruce Anderson in Excellence. I always find his assessment on the low-end and not reflective of the prices I see trading on rennlist.

 

I've given up on the idea of a street legal 993RS so,
Ok lets be more realistic, the 4 most attractive current candidates are


car1
1997 993 C4S Arctic Silver/Black,39kmi, stock asking $52.9k

car2
1996 993 C2 coupe, Polar silver, black interior, 6 speed, new OEM RS clutch, 993 Twin Turbo Big Red brakes and rotors, 993 Twin Turbo sway bars, H&R/Bilstein suspension package, lowered, aligned, corner balanced, Weltmeister strut tower brace, Limited Slip, ABD, K&N air filter, steel braided brake lines,18” TechArt Formula wheels, Bridgestone SO 2’s (f) 225/40/18 (r) 285/30/18, painted center caps, Euro tail lights, Premium OEM 10 speaker stereo, cassette & remote 6 disk CD player, garaged, non smoker, 47k miles, recent dealer service, fresh fluids & filters, new spark plugs, new alternator & AC belts, etc., no Driver Ed, Auto X, etc., original window sticker, an extremely well maintained Porsche, concours condition, asking $44.9k

car3
1996 C4S polar silver/black, 59kmi, PSS( 2001 turbo wheels, milla miglia exh., new clutch all maintainance, asking $44.5k

car4
1997 Carrera S,silver/blk, 23k mi, Bilsteins, adj sways, G50/30 w/ 8:32r&pFabspeed mufflers, 2 sets of wheels, asking $52k

Any comments, thoughts?

 

Bill,

Sounds like car2 or car4 might be for you. I would like to think that a C2 gives you a purer driving experience (tho I'm sure the C4 folks her would disagree) and you'll save a bunch of mods and maintenance costs with car2. I have the H&R/Bilstein set-up and think it's great. And just because you think you have a modded car, don't think you won't be tempted to sink in more mods. Trust me. I've been there.

Ask yourself if:
a) car1 is $8K worth more than car3?
b) car4 is $7K worth more than car2?

Car4 sounds pretty tempting is you have the extra money given the tranny mod, low mileage, rarity of the S body and extra set of wheels. Don't care much for the Fabspeeds tho.

 

Bill to people on this site Mods are very valuable but probably dont add $ for $ value. If someone has a car with 35K miles on it and he put PSS9's that would be great! if someone wants a pure stock car then it might be a draw back.
Personally I like the guys on this site who know what mods are about. Good mods and bad mods.

 

Clearly, supply and demand affects price, no great mystery there. However, I FIRMLY believe that pricing guides are an effective tool for determining, at a minimum, a base value. Are they the ONLY factor for considering value? No, of course not. Is an extremely low mileage, concours-condition car worth more than a high-mileage driver? Yes, of course it is. The price guides DO consider availability and demand and they are based on wholesale and retail transactions of similar vehicles.
That 1,800 mile museum piece? It will always demand a premium.

Case in point:

I used NADA and KBB averages for the 4 vehicles mentioned in the previous post:

Car 1 - $45,500
Car 2 - $38,500
Car 3 - $40,000
Car 4 - $42,500

I believe these to be FAIRLY realistic pricing for the cars, as described. Premiums should certainly be applied to EXTRAORDINARY examples, but I think these numbers reflect something close to market value. Similarly, I think that each of the aforementioned examples are overpriced.

As a side note:
I always find it interesting that when we're (YES, I'M GUILTY TOO) buying something it's ALWAYS overpriced, yet when we're selling something it's ALWAYS under-valued.
Car dealers certainly have some REAL responsibility for this phenomenon,
and maybe we have a little ourselves.

As always, YMMV.

Cheers

 

Hi Bill,
Before we can tell you which car is best for you, I think we need to know what you're looking for in a 993. Concours? Daily driver? Track car? Each of these cars fits these roles differently. Having seen your current car, and your comments about the RS, I'd say that you're not looking for a garage queen.

Personally, I'm attracted to #2, however there are folks who want a widebody above all else. For me, I can think of plenty of things to do with the dollar difference between the two. However, I think the asking price for #2 is vary high.

BTW, I've admired your 3.6 liter Targa for a while now. Great car. I've sworn to myself that if anything every happened to my 993 I'd build a coupe similar to your monster.

 

Thanks for the comments guys, yes, my current car is a ball and a keeper, but a track car it's not. I guess I am looking for a track oriented but street legal 993. I knew i wanted one the minute I saw the first one in '94. I prefer the narrow body. But #4 w/ the Cup trans is very attractive to me. As is #2 because of the brakes and RS flywheel and suspension on both. I am always suspicious of modified cars that have never seen the track though.

I wonder what a Cup or RS trans alone goes for?

 

I have been looking for a 993 C2S or C4S for about 4 months. I have come to the conclusion that the market is very inefficient. Prices vary all over the place depending on the location of the car, the anxiousness of the seller and buyer, the modifications, the mileage and the colour.

I am really surprised how much the colour affects the price and how fast the cars get sold. Silver/black, under 50K miles and under $50K, usually they go fairly fast, as long as they are well maintained.