Mark in Baltimore

If you're considering buying a product online and want to make the transaction through PayPal because you've heard it's a safe venue for buyers and sellers, be aware that PayPal will NOT offer any help if there is an issue of quality of the product.

So, if the item you bought is not what the seller claimed it was, PayPal cannot and will not do anything to rectify your situation. As many of you know, I made the mistake of buying what I thought was a Gert Carnewal front protection bar (FPB) from a character named Dixon/Pierre Tien. This FPB was a knock-off of the real thing, did not fit properly and was hawked by a guy who changed his stories more times than Michael Jackson changes nose prosthetics. Despite the preponderance of evidence I presented from the original post, PayPal insists it cannot make any evaluation of quality and force the seller to take the item back.

Fortunately, my credit card company is picking up the sword in this matter. The problem is that many of us have created PayPal accounts with our checking accounts, not our credit card accounts, which operates under different regulations than Visa or MasterCard.

PayPal, by being created, owned and linked with eBay, has created the impression that your transaction is safe. It's not. If you pay with a credit card through PayPal, you do have recourse with the card company.

Something to think about before you bid on that suspension system on eBay or snag that cool part in the PCA classifieds. Thankfully, most people are honest but even Dixon/Pierre managed to snake his way onto this forum.

kary993

Mark,

I am sorry to hear about your issue. I never thought that PayPal would ever correct a vendor's poor products or services as they are simply a conduit to pay and actually do not pay in the end. The institution you specify pays in the end. I think your advise to use a credit card versus a checking account through PayPal is a sound one. I will never provide any vendor with any cash in the transaction given some experiences I have had. I have always been very successful with vendors when issues arose when I have paid via a credit card!

hn

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Mark in Baltimore:
<strong>If

PayPal, by being created, owned and linked with eBay, has created the impression that your transaction is safe. It's not. If you pay with a credit card through PayPal, you do have recourse with the card company.

.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">yup, My wife lost $1200 on a lap top she never received from winning a bid on Ubid. Paypal didn't offer any help.

I will not paying anything over net not using Amex. They will take care of their customers.

Eric - Plug Guy

I have had terrific response as a business owner through PayPal from my customer service manager. Very few issues, most likely due to low priced items, and high quality to begin with, and I'm ready to jump in on any customer service issue immediately (there are but a few).

But I have had nothing but good things with PayPal. Sorry you had trouble.

amfp

Mark,

Thanks for your heads up.

Guess the alternative if you are linked to your checking account and do not know the seller is to to purchase the insurance PayPal offers to buyers. It seems that provides some protection. But not an expert about this.

I keep getting notices from Paypal to "get verified" and provide checking account info (not credit card) and have always refused it.

Sorry to hear about your experience. It is the few bad sellers who ruin it for the many honest one.

Anir

hn is right. Amex is fantastic. They have never failed to assist me in a situation such as this. Well worth the $55 / year.

I've never been burned on ebay (yet), but tend to frequent it much less than in the past because of my impression that it's becoming overrun by scoundrels.

GratefulJED

I did not know that Pierre Tien was hocking laptops as well - Mark - sorry to hear of your troubles. I too had a problem with Pierre that was rectified through my credit card. I think that Paypal/Ebay is doing a huge disservice by letting people with Pierre's track record come on board, although they can probably not stop it. I believe every transaction should have a protection feature. Paypal is certainly revolutionary and has done a huge business, I applaud that, but there needs to be more protection. Maybe we can all hawk Pierre's misfit parts -

Pete in DC

Par for the bloody course as EBay never steps into the buyer's corner on disputes. They have some serious security flaws and I wonder how much longer they can whistle past the graveyard. Like him or not, Eliot Spitzer must have an EBay file by now, right?

Mark in Baltimore

Thanks, guys. I just want to make sure people know what they are getting into before making any online purchases. Now, I know first-hand.

Skytop

True...Paypal is no panacea. There is an illusion of safety but it is of no concrete help. Try and even reach a human being at PayPal and get floored!

However, if you do purchase a product, near the end of the transaction, Paypal will offer you a 'money back guarantee' for a fee. That is the ONLY guarantee you will get from Paypal. They are just a bank and collect HUGE fees for expediancy of payment.
The only other safe method is by using an escrow agent.
Best of luck to all.

poorb0yw

Also keep in mind that the complaint period is 30 days after the payment. I was courteous to a seller and followed Ebays suggestion about not filing a complaint with them for approximately a months time. Unfortunately even though they are the same company now their policies are not the same regarding time.
When I got my money back through the credit card company a nice e-mail from Paypal was sent to me saying to resolve things only through them and that if you are deemed too high risk they will cut your privileges.

Mark in Baltimore

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by poorb0yw:
<strong>When I got my money back through the credit card company a nice e-mail from Paypal was sent to me saying to resolve things only through them and that if you are deemed too high risk they will cut your privileges.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Nice, very nice.

JC in NY

I don't understand why we think today that we are entitled to all sorts of protections when we suffer from our own poor judgement. It's pretty clear that Paypal is a service that transfers funds. They don't make any promises to protect your purchase. Sometimes credit cars protect you against specific types of fraud, sometimes not. But I think too many people today want to run to mommy for protection when they made a bad choice. The only real rule is "buyer beware", and it will always be that way.

Flamesuit on.

Mark in Baltimore

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by JC in NY:
<strong>Flamesuit on.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Flamethrower safety switched to "OFF"...

JC, I'm assuming you haven't been around recently to know how some of us were taken by a guy named Dixon aka Pierre Tien. In case you missed it, here is the link regarding the <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007349" target="_blank">phony front protection bar sale.</a> And here is one more link you should check out on an <a href="http://forums.rennlist.com/cgi-bin/rennforums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=007387" target="_blank">eBay scam.</a> This seller was run off of Rennlist because of his unsavory business practices. Go through the post and you'll see what happened.

If you HAVE already read the post prior to making this reply, then I guess you are one of the incredibly fortunate few who have never been taken by someone who is dishonest, lies or wishes to part hardworking individuals of their money by cheating them. Congratulations on your stupendous, otherworldly perceptiveness but the rest of us mere mortals must have some faith and trust that we are being sold what our fellow human beings have told us is true. Dare I say it, but I suspect someday you will be taken by someone who claims integrity but is actually looking to rip you off.

Poor judgment? Simply having a poor outcome does not mean that the judgment involved was poor. Obviously, this transaction did not work out very well for some of us, but most of us thought we were helping out a fellow Rennlister, as well as buying a needed part. Clearly and undeniably, the bar was something other than what the seller said it was. My evaluation, however flawed it was in the crystal clarity of 20/20 hindsight, said everything was legitimate but I still hedged my bets by using PayPal and paying with a credit card. Why use the credit card? Well, since I wasn’t blessed with your incredible superhuman perception of online transactions, I had to have some sort of safety net. Is this making ANY sense to you, JC?

Buyer beware? Absolutely, no question on that. In fact, PayPal WILL regulate your purchase but only if the item was never shipped. Pretty fine line here regarding safety, but they are clearly more than just a simple conduit of payment from seller to buyer. If PayPal were not, then why would they regulate an item never received? Consumer protection is a legal way to give buyers some power against dishonest sellers in the same way that the police give protection to citizens. For example, if someone robbed your house of all of your possessions, would you shrug your shoulders and say, “Gee, what poor judgment I had! I guess I should have moved to a better neighborhood/bought an alarm system/had a gun/not have owned such covetous stuff/traded in my golden retriever puppy for a bad-*** pitbull.” ?? If you were robbed, then calling the cops and seeking legal recourse against the perpetrators would be comparable to “running to Mommy”, yes? Of course you would call the cops AND probably call your mom, too.

I created this post to warn other Rennlisters to be careful in their buying practices with PayPal. Apparently, I’m not the only one who has been a victim regarding PayPal transactions. Why do you think there are state and federal consumer protection agencies that are designed to protect buyers? There are slick con artists out there but one cannot be paralyzed by fear of these guys. THAT’S where the protection should come in.

Would you like your meat medium-rare or well-done?

John W

Mark, the link doesn't work...

I must have missed this, and just fancied seeing how this guy operated.

Cheers,
John.