Track Upgrade Update!
06-02-2002, 01:56 PM
#16
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Great feedback All - thank you! 
I'm curious then, were Pagid Oranges the wrong choice for my occassional track endeavors? I thought Oranges were ok on rotors?
As for voiding insurance using a hot lap timer....very interesting. I truly didn't consider this, but will in the future. It's just so nice to see how you're progressing while on the track....still glad I installed it (bty., very easy to remove with no evidence of any timing mechanism within the car...)
I'm curious then, were Pagid Oranges the wrong choice for my occassional track endeavors? I thought Oranges were ok on rotors?
As for voiding insurance using a hot lap timer....very interesting. I truly didn't consider this, but will in the future. It's just so nice to see how you're progressing while on the track....still glad I installed it (bty., very easy to remove with no evidence of any timing mechanism within the car...)
06-02-2002, 03:25 PM
#17
The orange pads are "OK". All things being equal, however, and they never are, the RS-19 should be better. As to rotor wear, the RS 4-4 should produce less wear. On the other hand, some club racers might trade wear for performance -- if this was another type of racing there would be no question as rotors are deemed highly expendable (even carbon carbon rotors costing thousands per unit).
06-02-2002, 03:49 PM
#18
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Bob,
I was using the AP600 fluid. Maybe we didn't get all the old fluid out and there was a compatability issue.
I agree the Orange are OK pads. Used them for DE's and decided to try the Hawk Blues. The Oranges had a different feel and I liked the H.B. better and they were a fair bit less expensive. As far as rotor wear is concerned, it wasn't a noticeable difference, I figure I am going to replace the rotors once a year anyway. I think they cost about $150 each for the front. Not much difference than the price of the brake pads themselves.
I was using the AP600 fluid. Maybe we didn't get all the old fluid out and there was a compatability issue.
I agree the Orange are OK pads. Used them for DE's and decided to try the Hawk Blues. The Oranges had a different feel and I liked the H.B. better and they were a fair bit less expensive. As far as rotor wear is concerned, it wasn't a noticeable difference, I figure I am going to replace the rotors once a year anyway. I think they cost about $150 each for the front. Not much difference than the price of the brake pads themselves.
06-02-2002, 04:10 PM
#19
Greg:
Could have been a compatability issue -- what was in the system prior? On the other hand, 600 is a true racing product (551 is dual use) and there might be an assumption of very limited use before change -- I will ask an appropriate party. As to the pads, although quite expensive (more so than the Hawk), you might want to try the RS-19 as they really are quite good and you should notice a substantive difference over the R 4-4 and the Hawk. Finally, as to rotors, we can only hope for the day that the carbon ceramics will be a bit more cost effective (although, given their longevity, that day is coming -- despite the cost) and a true racing caliper for them is available -- and oh for the 40 to 70+ pound savings (depending upon the existing system, construction of the calipers and bells, dust seals, etc.) -- unsprung and partially rotating!
Bob
Could have been a compatability issue -- what was in the system prior? On the other hand, 600 is a true racing product (551 is dual use) and there might be an assumption of very limited use before change -- I will ask an appropriate party. As to the pads, although quite expensive (more so than the Hawk), you might want to try the RS-19 as they really are quite good and you should notice a substantive difference over the R 4-4 and the Hawk. Finally, as to rotors, we can only hope for the day that the carbon ceramics will be a bit more cost effective (although, given their longevity, that day is coming -- despite the cost) and a true racing caliper for them is available -- and oh for the 40 to 70+ pound savings (depending upon the existing system, construction of the calipers and bells, dust seals, etc.) -- unsprung and partially rotating!
Bob
06-02-2002, 08:20 PM
#20
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Bob,
I have no clue what was in the car before, I had bought this car to turn into a race car and it was a couple years old so I figured it may have the stock original fluid in it still.
Thanks for the recommendation on the Pagids I will get a set to try out.
Greg
I have no clue what was in the car before, I had bought this car to turn into a race car and it was a couple years old so I figured it may have the stock original fluid in it still.
Thanks for the recommendation on the Pagids I will get a set to try out.
Greg
06-03-2002, 02:52 AM
#21
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[quote]Originally posted by 993Widebody:
<strong>Glad to hear you had a great time, amazing that you can drive these cars so hard (200 miles of track time) and then drive home without any worry.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I agree All track events I've attended also have included the need to drive home. Thunderhill is a 3hr one-way trip, and my 95 993 with 93k miles has never let me down (multiple such trips already done...). I drive hard, but I don't take stupid risks. It's amazing - my car actually drives better after such "excercise" events. I compare such experiences to what a world-class athelete experiences - hard exercise is beneficial to overall health.
Do I feel like I'm abusing my car? Absolutely not! I take the highest care of my car, but just like an athelete, a little cardio vascular excercise is needed once and a while. It's amazing how well these cars do in what I consider their natural environment! Cheers to Porsche engineers for building such a magnificant, pleasure-inspiring piece of machinery!
<strong>Glad to hear you had a great time, amazing that you can drive these cars so hard (200 miles of track time) and then drive home without any worry.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, I agree
All track events I've attended also have included the need to drive home. Thunderhill is a 3hr one-way trip, and my 95 993 with 93k miles has never let me down (multiple such trips already done...). I drive hard, but I don't take stupid risks. It's amazing - my car actually drives better after such "excercise" events. I compare such experiences to what a world-class athelete experiences - hard exercise is beneficial to overall health. Do I feel like I'm abusing my car? Absolutely not! I take the highest care of my car, but just like an athelete, a little cardio vascular excercise is needed once and a while. It's amazing how well these cars do in what I consider their natural environment! Cheers to Porsche engineers for building such a magnificant, pleasure-inspiring piece of machinery!
06-03-2002, 03:05 AM
#22
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[quote]Originally posted by Robert Linton:
<strong>The orange pads are "OK". All things being equal, however, and they never are, the RS-19 should be better. As to rotor wear, the RS 4-4 should produce less wear. On the other hand, some club racers might trade wear for performance -- if this was another type of racing there would be no question as rotors are deemed highly expendable (even carbon carbon rotors costing thousands per unit).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi Robert, then I'm content with my RS 4-4 choice (oranges). They performed magnificantly on the track and their reputation for being easy on rotors is a definite pleasant bonus. I need to investigate RS-19, but for now I'm happy with Oranges.
BTY, Pagid recommends shaving 45deg angles on all pads. Chatted with guys from The Racers Group and they never do this. I didn't as well, and had no problems. I mounted pads a week prior to event and "seasoned" pads with cycles of braking and cooling. Pads squeeled during daily drives (no surprise here), but actually wasn't all that bad. No issue really, because I switched back to OEM pads after my event (really is easy changing pads, just like everyone said... E-mail me if you have any questions about this )
<strong>The orange pads are "OK". All things being equal, however, and they never are, the RS-19 should be better. As to rotor wear, the RS 4-4 should produce less wear. On the other hand, some club racers might trade wear for performance -- if this was another type of racing there would be no question as rotors are deemed highly expendable (even carbon carbon rotors costing thousands per unit).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hi Robert, then I'm content with my RS 4-4 choice (oranges). They performed magnificantly on the track and their reputation for being easy on rotors is a definite pleasant bonus. I need to investigate RS-19, but for now I'm happy with Oranges.
BTY, Pagid recommends shaving 45deg angles on all pads. Chatted with guys from The Racers Group and they never do this. I didn't as well, and had no problems. I mounted pads a week prior to event and "seasoned" pads with cycles of braking and cooling. Pads squeeled during daily drives (no surprise here), but actually wasn't all that bad. No issue really, because I switched back to OEM pads after my event (really is easy changing pads, just like everyone said... E-mail me if you have any questions about this
)
06-03-2002, 06:56 AM
#23
Greg:
As to pads on the Cup Cars, these cars are delivered with Compound P 40, a proprietary Porsche formulation. The GT3RS comes with RS 19 and I would expect RS 19 to be Porsche's pad of choice at LeMans in a few weeks.
Bob
As to pads on the Cup Cars, these cars are delivered with Compound P 40, a proprietary Porsche formulation. The GT3RS comes with RS 19 and I would expect RS 19 to be Porsche's pad of choice at LeMans in a few weeks.
Bob
06-03-2002, 11:25 AM
#24
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Thanks to Robert(s), Oleg and others, this string has been very informative. It is one of the few I have printed it its entirety. Thanks to Robert Linton for all the detailed information on pads and fluid. I am also pleased to see the First Amendment is still working...Robert's post was not censored.
I am going to try Pagid RS-19 pads for my next high speed event, Laguna Seca in August with the POC. In regards to resurfacing rotors, I am getting mixed messages. Some reputable shops in SoCal are saying, if the rotors are within spec after resurfacing...they are OK as long as you do not have interconnecting spider cracks amongst the holes. Robert Henricksen adds, he feels the Factory Shop Manual says to not resurface the rotors.
I have done at least five (5) high speed days at Willow Springs Raceway on resurfaced front rotors...no problems. But I want to do the right thing re. to re-surface or not.
I will break down and buy the shop manual (What is $300 compared to all the other “investments” I have made in this car to date!), and get the Porsche slant on resurfacing the rotors. Since I (my neighbor and I) will be replacing them as a DIY, if the manual says, do not resurface…I will have to listen to that advice. I must assume Porsche knows what they are talking about.
The next tool I am buying is a micrometer...I want to check rotor thickness and make the decision to replace. Big Red rotors are a bit more than standard 993 rotors..it is a trade off I can live with.
I am going to try Pagid RS-19 pads for my next high speed event, Laguna Seca in August with the POC. In regards to resurfacing rotors, I am getting mixed messages. Some reputable shops in SoCal are saying, if the rotors are within spec after resurfacing...they are OK as long as you do not have interconnecting spider cracks amongst the holes. Robert Henricksen adds, he feels the Factory Shop Manual says to not resurface the rotors.
I have done at least five (5) high speed days at Willow Springs Raceway on resurfaced front rotors...no problems. But I want to do the right thing re. to re-surface or not.
I will break down and buy the shop manual (What is $300 compared to all the other “investments” I have made in this car to date!), and get the Porsche slant on resurfacing the rotors. Since I (my neighbor and I) will be replacing them as a DIY, if the manual says, do not resurface…I will have to listen to that advice. I must assume Porsche knows what they are talking about.
The next tool I am buying is a micrometer...I want to check rotor thickness and make the decision to replace. Big Red rotors are a bit more than standard 993 rotors..it is a trade off I can live with.
06-03-2002, 12:26 PM
#26
Martin:
Thank you -- your kind words are very much appreciated.
As to the rotors, I could not presume to comment unless they were in my hands. As to following Porsche specs, I would very much suggest this as Porsche is, in my experience, very dedicated to the safety of its customers and has excellent brake engineers. Further, the cost of rotors when compared to one's well being is minimal indeed (and if one was going to buy new rotors, I would buy Porsche or, and I would have to look at the specs [e.g., lighter rotors which serve one purpose could have several negatives], possibly Alcon, AP or Brembo -- all of which are sold by Rennlist Sponsors).
Finally, I have no affilation with Alcon, AP, Brembo or Porsche AG or any of its subsidiaries other than I have the privilege and pleasure of being acquainted with engineers at all of the foregoing.
Bob
Thank you -- your kind words are very much appreciated.
As to the rotors, I could not presume to comment unless they were in my hands. As to following Porsche specs, I would very much suggest this as Porsche is, in my experience, very dedicated to the safety of its customers and has excellent brake engineers. Further, the cost of rotors when compared to one's well being is minimal indeed (and if one was going to buy new rotors, I would buy Porsche or, and I would have to look at the specs [e.g., lighter rotors which serve one purpose could have several negatives], possibly Alcon, AP or Brembo -- all of which are sold by Rennlist Sponsors).
Finally, I have no affilation with Alcon, AP, Brembo or Porsche AG or any of its subsidiaries other than I have the privilege and pleasure of being acquainted with engineers at all of the foregoing.
Bob
06-08-2002, 12:07 PM
#27
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Thread Starter
Two quick questions:
How does the brake fluid system work? Does fluid from the reservoir circulate thru the system, or does the fluid just sit there? I flushed my system prior to track event, so now if I wanted to bleed the brakes again, do I have to remove the reservoir fluid as well, or can I just bleed the calipers and re-fill the reservoir?
How can you tell (or check) if your rotors are good or shot? Are there any visual inspections to do, besides the obvious of severe cracks, etc... I know the best way to check is to actually measure the rotor thicknesses. Can I do this at home, or should a mechanics(with special equipment) do this?
TIA
How does the brake fluid system work? Does fluid from the reservoir circulate thru the system, or does the fluid just sit there? I flushed my system prior to track event, so now if I wanted to bleed the brakes again, do I have to remove the reservoir fluid as well, or can I just bleed the calipers and re-fill the reservoir?
How can you tell (or check) if your rotors are good or shot? Are there any visual inspections to do, besides the obvious of severe cracks, etc... I know the best way to check is to actually measure the rotor thicknesses. Can I do this at home, or should a mechanics(with special equipment) do this?
TIA
06-08-2002, 12:19 PM
#28
Brake fluid does circulate through the system eventually. That's why the fluid in the reservoir gets dirty, along with what comes out of the calipers.
You can check your rotors visually for cracking--cracks shouldn't connect to each other, and shouldn't reach the edge of the rotor. You can also check the thickness with a caliper from the autoparts store. The manual will have a minimum thickness.
You can check your rotors visually for cracking--cracks shouldn't connect to each other, and shouldn't reach the edge of the rotor. You can also check the thickness with a caliper from the autoparts store. The manual will have a minimum thickness.
