UK meet lastnight
10-29-2001, 08:45 AM
#31
Instructor
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Tito
Look at all the new Mercs, BMW's, Vauxhall's, Golf's that are driving around with these HID's - do you really think the Government would look to retropectively ban them? There was some talk about this in the States but not the UK.
The only possible hitch with a conversion for your 993 will be that it will not have a self levelling mechanism. In theory itcould be an MOT problem, in practice it is not, because most garages have never heard of self levelling mechanisms, let alone understand what they do. Mine sailed through the MOT without a problem.
Rob, you saw what John and my lights were like last week - do yours look anything like these? No. Litronics schmitronics, the Philips D2S bulbs and the Hella ballasts/igniters(with a Philips badge on them) that John and I have installed are exactly the same as the Porsche retrofit Litronics system.
If as I suspect you've got a weedy yellow dipped beam, then you have H1 halogens and not HID's. When you get to GTOne, pull one of the headlights and have a look.
Regards all
Look at all the new Mercs, BMW's, Vauxhall's, Golf's that are driving around with these HID's - do you really think the Government would look to retropectively ban them? There was some talk about this in the States but not the UK.
The only possible hitch with a conversion for your 993 will be that it will not have a self levelling mechanism. In theory itcould be an MOT problem, in practice it is not, because most garages have never heard of self levelling mechanisms, let alone understand what they do. Mine sailed through the MOT without a problem.
Rob, you saw what John and my lights were like last week - do yours look anything like these? No. Litronics schmitronics, the Philips D2S bulbs and the Hella ballasts/igniters(with a Philips badge on them) that John and I have installed are exactly the same as the Porsche retrofit Litronics system.
If as I suspect you've got a weedy yellow dipped beam, then you have H1 halogens and not HID's. When you get to GTOne, pull one of the headlights and have a look.
Regards all
10-29-2001, 09:08 AM
#32
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have to agree with you Steve, retrospective bans would be impossible to enforce/regulate. I do not believe that they will take place for the reasons that you mention. I guess I was just being overly pessimistic. I will be buying them as I was highly impressed by the light on your and John's cars.
I think that Litronics were offered as an option for the very last year of 993 production, possibly TT only. When I first got my mine, 2 years ago , an HR Owen service manager suggested that I might like to upgrade to litronics (~£1000). By all accounts OPC do not offer these any more. This either indicates that things things have changed or that the chap who spoke to me didn't get his facts right.
Regards
Tito.
I think that Litronics were offered as an option for the very last year of 993 production, possibly TT only. When I first got my mine, 2 years ago , an HR Owen service manager suggested that I might like to upgrade to litronics (~£1000). By all accounts OPC do not offer these any more. This either indicates that things things have changed or that the chap who spoke to me didn't get his facts right.
Regards
Tito.
10-29-2001, 09:35 AM
#33
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Steve
I am getting very confused now.
In the Drivers manual for my 993tt (its a dual manual for 993 and 993tt) there is reference to the turbo having Litronics. There is a box stating:
"911 Turbo:If the Litronic dipped-beam headlight fails, contact an OPC or a Bosch Service. All cables and control units of the Litronic dipped-beam headlight carry high tension; for this reason, extreme caution must be exercised"
The lights are not yellow, they have a subtle blue tinge, but not like others you see on the road today, but definately bluer and brighter than other 993s. Like I said mine is a very early '95 model.
I am getting very confused now.
In the Drivers manual for my 993tt (its a dual manual for 993 and 993tt) there is reference to the turbo having Litronics. There is a box stating:
"911 Turbo:If the Litronic dipped-beam headlight fails, contact an OPC or a Bosch Service. All cables and control units of the Litronic dipped-beam headlight carry high tension; for this reason, extreme caution must be exercised"
The lights are not yellow, they have a subtle blue tinge, but not like others you see on the road today, but definately bluer and brighter than other 993s. Like I said mine is a very early '95 model.
10-29-2001, 10:30 AM
#34
Instructor
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB993tt
TB - Hi there!
My comments were aimed at Rob who we met last week and who we thought definitely does not have Litronics. Your car interests me. I will check my owners handbook this evening to see whether it contains the reference to Litronics. It could well be that the handbooks were also designed to cover the US market?? Have you pulled one of your headlights to see whether there is a ballast/igniter behind?? Also, many Litronics kits were added by owners after their original purchase. Invariably this involved a genuine LHD Litronics kit where the reflectors were adjusted to work on UK roads - they did not have self levelling units as part of the kit. Usually, the igniters or ballasts were mounted inside the boot space underneath the carpet, one either side of the car. Another good way of checking whether you have Litronics/Xenon's is to switch them on and see on startup whether there is a flicker(like a fluorescent light starting motor) followed by ignition and then a settling down of the light ino a piercing blue/white light.
There are also diamond white bulbs etc.. out there that offer a better performance than standard H1 55W.
Pleas have a look and let me know how you get on.
TB - Hi there!
My comments were aimed at Rob who we met last week and who we thought definitely does not have Litronics. Your car interests me. I will check my owners handbook this evening to see whether it contains the reference to Litronics. It could well be that the handbooks were also designed to cover the US market?? Have you pulled one of your headlights to see whether there is a ballast/igniter behind?? Also, many Litronics kits were added by owners after their original purchase. Invariably this involved a genuine LHD Litronics kit where the reflectors were adjusted to work on UK roads - they did not have self levelling units as part of the kit. Usually, the igniters or ballasts were mounted inside the boot space underneath the carpet, one either side of the car. Another good way of checking whether you have Litronics/Xenon's is to switch them on and see on startup whether there is a flicker(like a fluorescent light starting motor) followed by ignition and then a settling down of the light ino a piercing blue/white light.
There are also diamond white bulbs etc.. out there that offer a better performance than standard H1 55W.
Pleas have a look and let me know how you get on.
10-29-2001, 10:50 AM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Steve
The car is in the work shop at the moment, but I'm beginning to think you are right, I've not noticed any "flickering" on turning the lights on or any delay. I have noticed however on the rare occasions I have had somone else follow me in the car at night, that the lights have a blueish tinge and look different from other cars' lights. I can't wait to get it back and check !
The car is in the work shop at the moment, but I'm beginning to think you are right, I've not noticed any "flickering" on turning the lights on or any delay. I have noticed however on the rare occasions I have had somone else follow me in the car at night, that the lights have a blueish tinge and look different from other cars' lights. I can't wait to get it back and check !
10-29-2001, 02:47 PM
#36
Instructor
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
TB
I will be interested to see what you find.
BTW, just checked my drivers manual. You are correct, there is a reference to the Litronics system - the mystery deepens.
The manual also looks as if it was written for the UK market and not the US i.e. it is in English and there are references to the EEC Regulations. Perhaps the LHD europe models had Litronics?? who knows.
We should EMail Porsche and ask them to clear up this issue once and for all.
Steve
I will be interested to see what you find.
BTW, just checked my drivers manual. You are correct, there is a reference to the Litronics system - the mystery deepens.
The manual also looks as if it was written for the UK market and not the US i.e. it is in English and there are references to the EEC Regulations. Perhaps the LHD europe models had Litronics?? who knows.We should EMail Porsche and ask them to clear up this issue once and for all.
Steve
10-29-2001, 09:10 PM
#38
Instructor
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Singapore
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it helps any (and I think it would just serve to confuse everyone further 
), all 993 tt cars that were sold in Singapore by the authorised agent (we are a RHD market) had litronics fitted as standard and these were also avaliable as an option for the normally aspirated cars both new and aftermarket. Techart also sells a aftermarket kit for RHD cars (nearly identical to the factory one) which is also avaliable here. Cost is about 2000 pounds installation included. 
), all 993 tt cars that were sold in Singapore by the authorised agent (we are a RHD market) had litronics fitted as standard and these were also avaliable as an option for the normally aspirated cars both new and aftermarket. Techart also sells a aftermarket kit for RHD cars (nearly identical to the factory one) which is also avaliable here. Cost is about 2000 pounds installation included.
10-30-2001, 10:10 AM
#39
Wow guys, you've been busy hitting that 'reply' button lately !! 
Right, I'm gonna do two posts.
Number 1 (this one) has the pic from last week attached.
Number 2 (the next one) I will enlighten (hehe) you with what I know about Litronics from my digging about on the topic last year.
From left ot right :
Riccardo, Steve, John (me), Rob, Eric, Tito.
Sorry for the delay - been working from home and not had chance to get on-line.
Right, I'm gonna do two posts.
Number 1 (this one) has the pic from last week attached.
Number 2 (the next one) I will enlighten (hehe) you with what I know about Litronics from my digging about on the topic last year.
From left ot right :
Riccardo, Steve, John (me), Rob, Eric, Tito.
Sorry for the delay - been working from home and not had chance to get on-line.
10-30-2001, 10:33 AM
#40
okay, Litronics and UK 993 cars.
USA, Japan, and a lot of European countries had Litronics as standard for the Turbo4 only.
Retrofit kits are offered for these countries, but none are offered for the UK.
NO UK car was EVER delivered from the factory with Litronics.
I am aware of two RHD cars that have subsequently been fitted with genuine Litronics. One of these is a Turbo S, and it cost the guy nearly 4k GBP to have it done !
You cannot buy litronic lights for the UK market. Stay with me on this before you start leaping up and down !
As far as I remember the Euro LHD lights have a beam pattern switch that allows the right uplift to be flattened for when driving in the UK.
I don't believe the US lights have this.
Japan, which have RHD cars too, did have Litronics on their Turbo4s as standard.
The guy that paid 4k for his install bought
a LHD euro retrofit kit, and then bought Japanese headlights on top of this.
It was fitted for him by an official dealer.
As a result of this, when Porsche GB found out, they gave the dealers an almighty b*ll*cking.
How do I know this ?
Well, I bought the LHD lights off him
I bought them after I had done my Autolamps install purely to see if I could mod them to make myself a 'pukka' Litronic headlamp (i.e. get the correct D2S mounts with a RHD beam pattern).
As for the manual commenting on the lights, well, its the same as the english version of the Japanese manual
Pretty much all of this can be confirmed by looking at the parts numbers on the PET parts list.
If you really think you have genuine Litronics, lift the bonnet, pull back the side carpets, and look for some alloy boxes with a big connector coming out the middle of them. Alternatively pull out one of the headlights (1 min job) and remove the rear cover. If there is a big brown block attached to the lid, thats the genuine ignitor. You will also see a VERY large bulb base rather than the standard H1 job.
I can't remember without looking, but there may be pics of the rear of a Litronic on my pics site posted previously (see litronic thread).
You will also have a noticeable turn-on colour shift as the lights warm up.
If you simply have a blueish tint, you've probably just got philips 'cool blue' or PIAA bulbs fitted...
Oh, one final thing.
Tito, if your concerned about no longer being able to get the H1 HID bulbs in the future, well, simply mod your lights then to take the D2S mount...
Alternatively pick up a second hand set of lights in the meantime to have modded if the need arrises.
Phew, I'm off to give my fingers a rest !!
Anyone want that password to order from autolamps, just give me a mail direct and I'll post it straight back.
Cheers all,
John.
P.S. appologies for the length of the mail
USA, Japan, and a lot of European countries had Litronics as standard for the Turbo4 only.
Retrofit kits are offered for these countries, but none are offered for the UK.
NO UK car was EVER delivered from the factory with Litronics.
I am aware of two RHD cars that have subsequently been fitted with genuine Litronics. One of these is a Turbo S, and it cost the guy nearly 4k GBP to have it done !
You cannot buy litronic lights for the UK market. Stay with me on this before you start leaping up and down !
As far as I remember the Euro LHD lights have a beam pattern switch that allows the right uplift to be flattened for when driving in the UK.
I don't believe the US lights have this.
Japan, which have RHD cars too, did have Litronics on their Turbo4s as standard.
The guy that paid 4k for his install bought
a LHD euro retrofit kit, and then bought Japanese headlights on top of this.
It was fitted for him by an official dealer.
As a result of this, when Porsche GB found out, they gave the dealers an almighty b*ll*cking.
How do I know this ?
Well, I bought the LHD lights off him
I bought them after I had done my Autolamps install purely to see if I could mod them to make myself a 'pukka' Litronic headlamp (i.e. get the correct D2S mounts with a RHD beam pattern).
As for the manual commenting on the lights, well, its the same as the english version of the Japanese manual
Pretty much all of this can be confirmed by looking at the parts numbers on the PET parts list.
If you really think you have genuine Litronics, lift the bonnet, pull back the side carpets, and look for some alloy boxes with a big connector coming out the middle of them. Alternatively pull out one of the headlights (1 min job) and remove the rear cover. If there is a big brown block attached to the lid, thats the genuine ignitor. You will also see a VERY large bulb base rather than the standard H1 job.
I can't remember without looking, but there may be pics of the rear of a Litronic on my pics site posted previously (see litronic thread).
You will also have a noticeable turn-on colour shift as the lights warm up.
If you simply have a blueish tint, you've probably just got philips 'cool blue' or PIAA bulbs fitted...
Oh, one final thing.
Tito, if your concerned about no longer being able to get the H1 HID bulbs in the future, well, simply mod your lights then to take the D2S mount...
Alternatively pick up a second hand set of lights in the meantime to have modded if the need arrises.
Phew, I'm off to give my fingers a rest !!
Anyone want that password to order from autolamps, just give me a mail direct and I'll post it straight back.
Cheers all,
John.
P.S. appologies for the length of the mail
10-30-2001, 01:40 PM
#41
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Originally posted by John W:
<STRONG>
</STRONG>
<STRONG>
</STRONG>
Maybe we Belgians see this different.
10-30-2001, 01:44 PM
#42
Burning Brakes
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London (England)
Posts: 1,037
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey John,
Thanks for posting the picture (or not, depending on how you feel about what you look like in it!).
Tell you what, I'm glad there are no litronics available for the 964, seems a bit of a hassle!
See you all soon?
Riccardo
Thanks for posting the picture (or not, depending on how you feel about what you look like in it!).
Tell you what, I'm glad there are no litronics available for the 964, seems a bit of a hassle!
See you all soon?
Riccardo
10-30-2001, 02:00 PM
#43
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2001
Location: London, UK
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
After seeing the picture , maybe I should forget the litronics and save up for a wig and a face lift.
Riccardo- what type of bulb does the 964 use you might be able to upgrade. Have you checked out the website that John posted , they seem to have many different bulb upgrades.
Regards
Tito
Riccardo- what type of bulb does the 964 use you might be able to upgrade. Have you checked out the website that John posted , they seem to have many different bulb upgrades.
Regards
Tito
10-30-2001, 02:21 PM
#44
Instructor
Join Date: May 2001
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
For god's sake Riccardo don't even think about your bulb type. 
Keep the standard H4 and enjoy life to the full. Xenon's are good but they are not worth the amount of List time that has been dedicated to them over the last couple of years.
BTW thanks John for posting the picture and to Gert for noticing that this was after closing time when we had all had about 7 or 8 pints of Stella and were just about to embark on a 140 mph race back to and around the notorious M25(only kidding folks).
Regards to all
Keep the standard H4 and enjoy life to the full. Xenon's are good but they are not worth the amount of List time that has been dedicated to them over the last couple of years. BTW thanks John for posting the picture and to Gert for noticing that this was after closing time when we had all had about 7 or 8 pints of Stella and were just about to embark on a 140 mph race back to and around the notorious M25(only kidding folks).
Regards to all
