Help! RS sway bar and PSS-9 installation problem
03-26-2003 | 12:48 PM
#1
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From: Baltimore, MD
Help! RS sway bar and PSS-9 installation problem
Hey, folks,
My mechanic, Gennady Soykhin of GTPerformance, is having a bit of a dilemma with installing the RS bars on the Bilstein PSS-9's, saying that the rear bar will not fit properly with the PSS-9 coilovers that he just installed.
He seems to think that the front drop links are designed for a C4 and will not fit my C2. Additionally, he feels that the rear drop links are designed to work with the original shocks and not the Bilsteins. With these bars and the Bilstein PSS-9's, the mounting point for the swaybar link is in a different place, putting the mounting point 2 cm lower than it should be. Now, supposedly the swaybar will hit the toe adjustment control arm.
When I asked him about using a different droplink, he felt that this route was not feasible since the geometry would be different, resulting in a swaybar that will be much higher up and a drop that will be much shorter, doubling the load on the bar and perhaps leading to breakage. Gennady feels that I need RSR sway bars, not RS bars.
Gennady is supposed to be a respected mechanic in the area and seems to be the guy that lots of 993 cup car owners go to for Moton and JRZ suspension work, engine and general set up, etc., etc., so even though I've never worked with him before, I'm thinking (and hoping) he knows his stuff.
I checked the archives to see if anyone else ran into this problem but I don't think anyone has. If I'm wrong, please send a link. If this were a major problem, one of you guys would have run into it, yes? I guess there's always the possibility that I was sent the wrong bars due to human error but I'm thinking that Gennady is overlooking something since he has never installed the PSS-9's before.
Help. Suggestions. Anything.
Thanks in advance!
My mechanic, Gennady Soykhin of GTPerformance, is having a bit of a dilemma with installing the RS bars on the Bilstein PSS-9's, saying that the rear bar will not fit properly with the PSS-9 coilovers that he just installed.
He seems to think that the front drop links are designed for a C4 and will not fit my C2. Additionally, he feels that the rear drop links are designed to work with the original shocks and not the Bilsteins. With these bars and the Bilstein PSS-9's, the mounting point for the swaybar link is in a different place, putting the mounting point 2 cm lower than it should be. Now, supposedly the swaybar will hit the toe adjustment control arm.
When I asked him about using a different droplink, he felt that this route was not feasible since the geometry would be different, resulting in a swaybar that will be much higher up and a drop that will be much shorter, doubling the load on the bar and perhaps leading to breakage. Gennady feels that I need RSR sway bars, not RS bars.
Gennady is supposed to be a respected mechanic in the area and seems to be the guy that lots of 993 cup car owners go to for Moton and JRZ suspension work, engine and general set up, etc., etc., so even though I've never worked with him before, I'm thinking (and hoping) he knows his stuff.
I checked the archives to see if anyone else ran into this problem but I don't think anyone has. If I'm wrong, please send a link. If this were a major problem, one of you guys would have run into it, yes? I guess there's always the possibility that I was sent the wrong bars due to human error but I'm thinking that Gennady is overlooking something since he has never installed the PSS-9's before.
Help. Suggestions. Anything.
Thanks in advance!
03-26-2003 | 12:59 PM
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From: Austin TX
Are you sure you got the RS rear sway bar links?
There shouldn't be any problem with them I used them on my race car with JRZ's and the RS sway bar.
THe bar is below the toe link. The mount on the shock is adjustable so it can be raised or lowered to get it into the right position.
There shouldn't be any problem with them I used them on my race car with JRZ's and the RS sway bar.
THe bar is below the toe link. The mount on the shock is adjustable so it can be raised or lowered to get it into the right position.
03-26-2003 | 12:59 PM
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From: Chicago
Mark,
I too am having problems with the drop links in the rear. I have tried 2 different bars, Weltmister and Racers Group. Neither works great. I ordered TRG drop links and drop link collar and still the set up is off. My shop is working on a solution now, I will let you know. BTW with the Weltmister bars, I had a set of custom drop links made and the stress kept breaking the hemi joint.
I am suprised that this has not come up before, either shops are putting these on wrong or we have a couple of screwed up cars...
I too am having problems with the drop links in the rear. I have tried 2 different bars, Weltmister and Racers Group. Neither works great. I ordered TRG drop links and drop link collar and still the set up is off. My shop is working on a solution now, I will let you know. BTW with the Weltmister bars, I had a set of custom drop links made and the stress kept breaking the hemi joint.
I am suprised that this has not come up before, either shops are putting these on wrong or we have a couple of screwed up cars...
03-26-2003 | 01:12 PM
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From: Baltimore, MD
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Greg Fishman:
<strong>Are you sure you got the RS rear sway bar links?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Greg,
I'm not sure of anything. I'm just a dumb photographer, hoping I have the right parts.
Eric,
I can't believe this hasn't come up before, either. So many others have installed this combo and have tracked it with great results. Where's that head-shaking graemlin when I need it?
<strong>Are you sure you got the RS rear sway bar links?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Greg,
I'm not sure of anything. I'm just a dumb photographer, hoping I have the right parts.
Eric,
I can't believe this hasn't come up before, either. So many others have installed this combo and have tracked it with great results. Where's that head-shaking graemlin when I need it?
03-26-2003 | 01:17 PM
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From: Chicago
Greg,
I got the cresent shaped blue drop links. With the PSS9's I had to screw the collar down to the very bottom to get enough clearance. Stock PSS9 collar was way too short. I dont have a real clearance issue with the lower arm, more of a issue of having to mount the drop links on the inside of one end and outside of the other end.The RG stuff just does not fit all that great. I just got off the phone with the shop, they have it set up this way now and will see how it holds up at our test and tune in a couple of weeks. My shop knows Kevin B. pretty well and tells me that the parts comming out of there have been suspect on occasion. I figure to have this set up for only another season and then on to Motons...
I got the cresent shaped blue drop links. With the PSS9's I had to screw the collar down to the very bottom to get enough clearance. Stock PSS9 collar was way too short. I dont have a real clearance issue with the lower arm, more of a issue of having to mount the drop links on the inside of one end and outside of the other end.The RG stuff just does not fit all that great. I just got off the phone with the shop, they have it set up this way now and will see how it holds up at our test and tune in a couple of weeks. My shop knows Kevin B. pretty well and tells me that the parts comming out of there have been suspect on occasion. I figure to have this set up for only another season and then on to Motons...
03-26-2003 | 01:18 PM
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From: Austin TX
Mark,
Look at Gert's site and see if your drop links look like these. They will have a kink in them to clear the toe link. My race suspension is very similar to yours and there was no issue at all with this. I bought a suspension for my street car (Bilstein HD's) and they came with some short drop links and those wouldn't work right with the RS bar IMO. I wonder if the Pss9's come with those as well?
<a href="http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93024.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93024.htm</a>
Look at Gert's site and see if your drop links look like these. They will have a kink in them to clear the toe link. My race suspension is very similar to yours and there was no issue at all with this. I bought a suspension for my street car (Bilstein HD's) and they came with some short drop links and those wouldn't work right with the RS bar IMO. I wonder if the Pss9's come with those as well?
<a href="http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93024.htm" target="_blank">http://www.carnewal-europe.com/cpx_p93024.htm</a>
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03-26-2003 | 01:42 PM
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Re: RS drop links, Gert can get them for a reasonable price also.
Eric,
I don't think Jerry is doing a lot of events this year. I think he will do one or both of the Putnam events and a few DE's. We are both instructing for a Ferrari Club at Gingerman in August. It is a lot of fun and you should come down as well.
Eric,
I don't think Jerry is doing a lot of events this year. I think he will do one or both of the Putnam events and a few DE's. We are both instructing for a Ferrari Club at Gingerman in August. It is a lot of fun and you should come down as well.
03-26-2003 | 01:57 PM
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I have PSS-9's and RS bars. With the RS drop links it fits fine. Kim posted a picture of his PSS-9/RS setup about 2 months ago, if you search, I think you'll find it.
My mechanic did not like the fact that the drop links put the bar below the A-arm (he was afraid of damage from the road) but that's the way it fits.
Mark & Eric, what did you do for the rear spring perches? Did you use monoballs or get the hat that Steve sells? (I used the hat from Steve.) I was a bit surprised to see a note in the PSS-9 kit that specified that the stock configuration should not be used.
You can also get the drop links from Rennsport Systems (Steve). He was very good about overnighting some parts to me.
My mechanic did not like the fact that the drop links put the bar below the A-arm (he was afraid of damage from the road) but that's the way it fits.
Mark & Eric, what did you do for the rear spring perches? Did you use monoballs or get the hat that Steve sells? (I used the hat from Steve.) I was a bit surprised to see a note in the PSS-9 kit that specified that the stock configuration should not be used.
You can also get the drop links from Rennsport Systems (Steve). He was very good about overnighting some parts to me.
03-26-2003 | 02:05 PM
#14
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From: Chicago
Tom,
I now have ERP Camber plates (care of Steve W.) I ran 20+ track days last year with the stock set up with no problems. I got some of the first PSS9's that came to our country, there was no note in my package as to the stock conf. not being used...
I now have ERP Camber plates (care of Steve W.) I ran 20+ track days last year with the stock set up with no problems. I got some of the first PSS9's that came to our country, there was no note in my package as to the stock conf. not being used...
03-26-2003 | 02:05 PM
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Tom W:
<strong>My mechanic did not like the fact that the drop links put the bar below the A-arm (he was afraid of damage from the road) but that's the way it fits.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't like that either but my mechanic and Steve W. assured me that it was correct. After looking at a number of 993 factory race cars they were like that as well.
<strong>My mechanic did not like the fact that the drop links put the bar below the A-arm (he was afraid of damage from the road) but that's the way it fits.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I didn't like that either but my mechanic and Steve W. assured me that it was correct. After looking at a number of 993 factory race cars they were like that as well.