Help! RS sway bar and PSS-9 installation problem
03-26-2003, 01:05 PM
#16
King of Cool
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I just had PSS-9, monoballs/camber plates and RS sway bars installed.
First the shop thought we'd need shorter drop links for rear but when with RS drop links, no problems at all. And there are plenty of adjustment left (up & down) in drop link collar, if I'd need it.
Here's a shot of RS sway & drop link (not with PSS-9 but you'll see how it's supposed to be and that it will work with Bilsteins, I can take a shot of my car but it will pretty much look like this, it's cleaner though!
).
<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/993RSswaybar.jpg" alt=" - " />
First the shop thought we'd need shorter drop links for rear but when with RS drop links, no problems at all. And there are plenty of adjustment left (up & down) in drop link collar, if I'd need it.
Here's a shot of RS sway & drop link (not with PSS-9 but you'll see how it's supposed to be and that it will work with Bilsteins, I can take a shot of my car but it will pretty much look like this, it's cleaner though!
).<img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/upload/993RSswaybar.jpg" alt=" - " />
03-26-2003, 02:15 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Guys,
Thanks so much for everyone's feedback. What a nightmare this would be without Rennlist. Okay, RS drop links it is. I guess when you buy the "RS" bars, it's incorrect to assume you will get the "RS" hardware....
Tom, I went with the hats that Steve Weiner sells. From what I had read, it seemed like the way to go, monoballs being too hard for my mostly street, Eastern region car. The pieces are beautifully made.
I can't wait to get my car back and try out the new suspension and new Weiner chip. I only had the car for a day since installing the chip before I dropped it off to the mechanic, so I haven't been able to get a full handle on the increased power. I'll do a review after becoming more acquainted with the changes.
Thanks so much for everyone's feedback. What a nightmare this would be without Rennlist. Okay, RS drop links it is. I guess when you buy the "RS" bars, it's incorrect to assume you will get the "RS" hardware....
Tom, I went with the hats that Steve Weiner sells. From what I had read, it seemed like the way to go, monoballs being too hard for my mostly street, Eastern region car. The pieces are beautifully made.
I can't wait to get my car back and try out the new suspension and new Weiner chip. I only had the car for a day since installing the chip before I dropped it off to the mechanic, so I haven't been able to get a full handle on the increased power. I'll do a review after becoming more acquainted with the changes.
03-26-2003, 02:48 PM
#18
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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Mark in Baltimore:
<strong>Guys,
Tom, I went with the hats that Steve Weiner sells. From what I had read, it seemed like the way to go go, monoballs being too hard for my mostly street, Eastern region car. The pieces are beautifully made.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That is why probably you have fitment problems with your links. The hats essentially make the assembly longer, therefore you need the RS links.
Robert found out the hard way I guess about the need for the RS bar and link on his rear PSS-9.
Personally I think the jury is still out on the monoballs for the rear. I have full monoballs on the race car with a semi stiff one spring Racers Group RSR suspension and while street driving I have not really experienced noises or otherwise excessive stiffness.I was actually very surprised about that. There are many rubber joints in the links of the suspension which play a big role in comfort. That is why Steve is selling all the wonderfull ERP monoball type bushings for the links of the suspension, as on a race car you will need the accurate feedback and dont mind about noise of harsness.
Greg is absolutely correct to indentify the problems with the TRG sway links, while on the track event Robert showed me the problem and potential binding that could be caused by the links. My mechanic said that he will try to figure out a way to make them work properly as he did not particularly like them as well. Having said that I did not experience any major problems on the track.
If I had to do it all over again on my street car and the PSS-9 was my only choise ( I still like the H&R's better) I would go with a set of monoball, adjustable camber perches like the TRG units front and back. The adjustability especially for track events when it comes to camber ( as you become a more experienced and therefore more demanding driver), the proper fitment and accurate feedback outweighs the small loss of comfort IMO. All you have to do is ask yourself what you REALLY want from the suspension to do for you and then make the decision. As always many people will try to steer you right but always keep in mind different driving styles and tastes...You will spend a lot of money however and you have to look at the ultimate potential of your system for you only...
Good luck!
<strong>Guys,
Tom, I went with the hats that Steve Weiner sells. From what I had read, it seemed like the way to go go, monoballs being too hard for my mostly street, Eastern region car. The pieces are beautifully made.
.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">That is why probably you have fitment problems with your links. The hats essentially make the assembly longer, therefore you need the RS links.
Robert found out the hard way I guess about the need for the RS bar and link on his rear PSS-9.
Personally I think the jury is still out on the monoballs for the rear. I have full monoballs on the race car with a semi stiff one spring Racers Group RSR suspension and while street driving I have not really experienced noises or otherwise excessive stiffness.I was actually very surprised about that. There are many rubber joints in the links of the suspension which play a big role in comfort. That is why Steve is selling all the wonderfull ERP monoball type bushings for the links of the suspension, as on a race car you will need the accurate feedback and dont mind about noise of harsness.
Greg is absolutely correct to indentify the problems with the TRG sway links, while on the track event Robert showed me the problem and potential binding that could be caused by the links. My mechanic said that he will try to figure out a way to make them work properly as he did not particularly like them as well. Having said that I did not experience any major problems on the track.
If I had to do it all over again on my street car and the PSS-9 was my only choise ( I still like the H&R's better) I would go with a set of monoball, adjustable camber perches like the TRG units front and back. The adjustability especially for track events when it comes to camber ( as you become a more experienced and therefore more demanding driver), the proper fitment and accurate feedback outweighs the small loss of comfort IMO. All you have to do is ask yourself what you REALLY want from the suspension to do for you and then make the decision. As always many people will try to steer you right but always keep in mind different driving styles and tastes...You will spend a lot of money however and you have to look at the ultimate potential of your system for you only...
Good luck!
03-26-2003, 03:13 PM
#19
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I gave a lot of thought to monoballs, but decided to go with the hats (hell, the whole set-up) from Steve because my car is a daily driver and I really didn't want it to be too uncomfortable.
The comfort level we are happy with in a daily driver varies from person-to-person. I recommend a ride in a car with the planned upgrade before you commit for those considering the options. Danny and I came to different conclusions based on our preferences.
As a novice track driver, I was more than satisfied with the adjustability of the PSS-9's and the feel of the aluminum hats on the rear.
My car still understeers more than desired (and air pressure or shock udjustments had little effect) so I will start playing with sway bar settings at an autocross this weekend (making the rear more firm). The joys of adjustability.
I've had an autocross and 3 days of DE since the suspension changes and the new chip. I'm very, very happy with the results. It was really nice to have instructors that drove our car be very complementary about it's handling and power.
The comfort level we are happy with in a daily driver varies from person-to-person. I recommend a ride in a car with the planned upgrade before you commit for those considering the options. Danny and I came to different conclusions based on our preferences.
As a novice track driver, I was more than satisfied with the adjustability of the PSS-9's and the feel of the aluminum hats on the rear.
My car still understeers more than desired (and air pressure or shock udjustments had little effect) so I will start playing with sway bar settings at an autocross this weekend (making the rear more firm). The joys of adjustability.
I've had an autocross and 3 days of DE since the suspension changes and the new chip. I'm very, very happy with the results. It was really nice to have instructors that drove our car be very complementary about it's handling and power.
03-27-2003, 01:59 PM
#20
Mark,
I just off the phone with Gennady. My car is up in his shop now, so I told him to look at me pss-9's and RS sway bars. He said your bars are not the same at all. So it does not sound like you have RS parts. Gennady will take care of you, he is a good guy and knows his stuff.
Todd
I just off the phone with Gennady. My car is up in his shop now, so I told him to look at me pss-9's and RS sway bars. He said your bars are not the same at all. So it does not sound like you have RS parts. Gennady will take care of you, he is a good guy and knows his stuff.
Todd
03-29-2003, 08:22 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
FF, Danny and Tom - thanks for your responses on this issue. From my latest email from Gert, who I bought the RS bars and hardware from, I apparently DO have the RS links, meaning that there was nothing extra for me to buy. FF's pic corroborates what I have.
Gert emailed a picture, which looks just like FF's, showing how the end point of the bar was supposed to be oriented UNDER the control arm. Perhaps I misunderstood Genady but I believe he said he did not like this set up since it reduced my ground clearance by over 1.5" and could or would be a problem should I smack any rumble strips. He went ahead and fitted the bars anyway and noted that with this setup and ride height (RS ride height), I would not have enough flexibility to set the rear bar to the closest holes. I hope I'm interpreting this correctly.
Todd - is your car the arena red TT? If it is, I thought Genady said you had H&R's. If that was your TT, your droplinks, which mount under the control arms like my car, do not look like mine, yours being anodized blue and flat in shape, mine being goldish and round. If you do, in fact, have the RS drop links, I'm even more confused, then, because I don't know what the hell I have.
Yes, Genady is a good guy. I trust Steve Weiner, Gert and the rest of you guys, but I had also heard good things about Genady, a racer and mechanic who wrenches his own 993 (and has won three championships, apparently?), as well as many other club racers. Genady had never installed a PSS-9 system and may have had trouble adapting his racer's mentality to some of the compromises of the Bilstein coilover/RS bar combo. I felt caught in the middle with my zero experience in the 993 suspension department.
Sam - Genady was at Sebring on the weekend of March 15th. I do have my car back but had to drive it today in pouring down rain with baldish rear tires; not the right combination for suspension testing. I'll do a full report when I get more seat time.
Thanks, guys!
Gert emailed a picture, which looks just like FF's, showing how the end point of the bar was supposed to be oriented UNDER the control arm. Perhaps I misunderstood Genady but I believe he said he did not like this set up since it reduced my ground clearance by over 1.5" and could or would be a problem should I smack any rumble strips. He went ahead and fitted the bars anyway and noted that with this setup and ride height (RS ride height), I would not have enough flexibility to set the rear bar to the closest holes. I hope I'm interpreting this correctly.
Todd - is your car the arena red TT? If it is, I thought Genady said you had H&R's. If that was your TT, your droplinks, which mount under the control arms like my car, do not look like mine, yours being anodized blue and flat in shape, mine being goldish and round. If you do, in fact, have the RS drop links, I'm even more confused, then, because I don't know what the hell I have.
Yes, Genady is a good guy. I trust Steve Weiner, Gert and the rest of you guys, but I had also heard good things about Genady, a racer and mechanic who wrenches his own 993 (and has won three championships, apparently?), as well as many other club racers. Genady had never installed a PSS-9 system and may have had trouble adapting his racer's mentality to some of the compromises of the Bilstein coilover/RS bar combo. I felt caught in the middle with my zero experience in the 993 suspension department.
Sam - Genady was at Sebring on the weekend of March 15th. I do have my car back but had to drive it today in pouring down rain with baldish rear tires; not the right combination for suspension testing. I'll do a full report when I get more seat time.
Thanks, guys!
03-30-2003, 01:30 PM
#24
Mark,
I wish I had a TT, but my car was/is the guards red 993, missing several windows and have some body work done. I do have the PSS-9's and RS sway bars that I bought from Gert and installed last spring. I did call Gennady last week and told him to take a look at my car, he did while I was on the phone. He said you have different drop down links. If you want, we can always try and hook up, so I can get a look at your bars and drop links.
Todd
I wish I had a TT, but my car was/is the guards red 993, missing several windows and have some body work done. I do have the PSS-9's and RS sway bars that I bought from Gert and installed last spring. I did call Gennady last week and told him to take a look at my car, he did while I was on the phone. He said you have different drop down links. If you want, we can always try and hook up, so I can get a look at your bars and drop links.
Todd
03-30-2003, 04:12 PM
#25
RL Technical Advisor
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by JC in NY:
<strong>What's the difference between the RS bars and the RSR bars?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi JC:
One & the same; 23mm and 20mm.
Now,.....the GT-2 could be had with a 22mm rear bar and the GT-2 EVO (optional on RSR) had a cockpit-adjustable front bar.
Fron Mark's description, it sounds to me like he does have the factory RS bars and droplinks. Those are yellow cad plated parts.
<strong>What's the difference between the RS bars and the RSR bars?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Hi JC:
One & the same; 23mm and 20mm.
Now,.....the GT-2 could be had with a 22mm rear bar and the GT-2 EVO (optional on RSR) had a cockpit-adjustable front bar.
Fron Mark's description, it sounds to me like he does have the factory RS bars and droplinks. Those are yellow cad plated parts.
03-30-2003, 04:21 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Todd - thanks for your help. I think I did see your car; it had the, uh, dent in the rear? Ouch. I would love to check out your car and take a look at your RS links. I'll PM you.
Thanks, Steve!
Thanks, Steve!
