Recommendations for drop
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 34
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From: Chicago, IL
Recommendations for drop
I am about to install the H&R coilover (street) setup on my 96 C4S, along with RSR sway bars. Any suggestions on how much to drop the height of the car (w/18" wheels)? I live in the Bay area, will do some track events, but most use will be street. I want an aggressive look, but still streetable. Any comments?
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 418
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From: New Jersey, USA
Based SOLELY on pics of stock ht versus actual look of my 993, I have a feeling mine may be a wee bit lower than the 3/4 to 1 inch that you are writing about. NO rubbing at all. This weekend we tried with my wife in back seat too and did not experience any rubbing at all.
Just thought I'd post that its possible, though probably a function of something else done right, or I may just be wrong about guestimating height differences. Regardless, my car does not have that look of fenders hiding part of the tyres which I hate.. the gap between fender and tyre is fairly constant in the sides and top. Not that totally "slammed" look.
BTW, we also learnt that back seat may look like it fits sideways but headroom is impossible - totally forgot to think of the fact that headroom would be different in the back seat than in the front seat - usually its more in other cars
She had to sit behind passenger with legs on drivers side and head bent down. And I thought this would be ideal car since we never really use the M3 backseat except in a rare instance like this so a slight discomfort for legs was okay. STill, it worked for what its worth though she wanted to take the M on the trip to return friend.
Just thought I'd post that its possible, though probably a function of something else done right, or I may just be wrong about guestimating height differences. Regardless, my car does not have that look of fenders hiding part of the tyres which I hate.. the gap between fender and tyre is fairly constant in the sides and top. Not that totally "slammed" look.
BTW, we also learnt that back seat may look like it fits sideways but headroom is impossible - totally forgot to think of the fact that headroom would be different in the back seat than in the front seat - usually its more in other cars
She had to sit behind passenger with legs on drivers side and head bent down. And I thought this would be ideal car since we never really use the M3 backseat except in a rare instance like this so a slight discomfort for legs was okay. STill, it worked for what its worth though she wanted to take the M on the trip to return friend.
Burning Brakes
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 1,199
Likes: 1
From: www.cupcar.net
I like the European RS height which is quite low - perhaps too low for most but good enough for European sport drivers. The height is measured front and rear at specific chassis points under the car. If you are interested I will post them.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 423
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From: Franklin, TN
Originally posted by Ran:
<STRONG> This weekend we tried with my wife in back seat too and did not experience any rubbing at all.
.</STRONG>
<STRONG> This weekend we tried with my wife in back seat too and did not experience any rubbing at all.
.</STRONG>
JUST KIDDING!!!!
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 127
Likes: 0
Ric,
I noticed that you live in Mountain View. I hope you are planning to have the H&Rs put on at Custom Allignment. They installed mine and nailed the allignment on the first try. I previously had work done at both TRG and Scargo, and had to go back multiple times to get things right.
I had them lower my car about 3/4" and didn't have any rubbing problems, but I have had the fender lips rolled and am using spacers.
Dave
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Dave '95 Cab ]
I noticed that you live in Mountain View. I hope you are planning to have the H&Rs put on at Custom Allignment. They installed mine and nailed the allignment on the first try. I previously had work done at both TRG and Scargo, and had to go back multiple times to get things right.
I had them lower my car about 3/4" and didn't have any rubbing problems, but I have had the fender lips rolled and am using spacers.
Dave
[ 06-28-2001: Message edited by: Dave '95 Cab ]
Advanced
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 59
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From: North NJ
Ric,
I installed just the H&R springs, not the whole shabang.. yet.. and yes it dropped it more than an inch or so.. I have had no problems with tires rubbing, with or with out others in car.. including wife and dogs...does give it one heck of an aggressive look tho...
Carmen
95 993 Cab
I installed just the H&R springs, not the whole shabang.. yet.. and yes it dropped it more than an inch or so.. I have had no problems with tires rubbing, with or with out others in car.. including wife and dogs...does give it one heck of an aggressive look tho...
Carmen
95 993 Cab
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Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 161
Likes: 0
From: Detroit
You should talk in terms of what height you want to achieve - rather than drop, since your car may be a little "off" in terms of ride height at the moment - may as well aim for some version of perfection.
Anyway, for reference, and from Workshop Manual:
All values are axle heights in millimetres to the measurement points. Front point is road surface to outer hexagon head bolt of "cross member to mounting". Rear point is road surface to rear mating face of bottom of subframe. There are diags in Manual
USA Std: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
USA Sport: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
ROW Std: Front 154mm, Rear 147mm
ROW Sport: Front 144mm, Rear 127mm
Carrera S / 4S: Same as Sport for USA / ROW as appropriate
Carrera RS: Front 124mm, Rear 107mm
Measurements are plus/minus 10mm
So from this, note that Carrera RS was a full 50mm or about 2" lower than US Std !
My own car is lowered to halfway between ROW Sport and RS settings - very occasionally my 18" (Hollow Spoke Turbo) wheels will scrape going over very broken pavement. But only very occasionally - like I can remember it maybe twice.
From this, I deduce you wouldn't want to go much lower than ROW Sport - or, say 1.25" lower than US Std. without starting to think pretty carefully about rubbing, wheel offsets etc.
Hope this is helpful
Chris
Anyway, for reference, and from Workshop Manual:
All values are axle heights in millimetres to the measurement points. Front point is road surface to outer hexagon head bolt of "cross member to mounting". Rear point is road surface to rear mating face of bottom of subframe. There are diags in Manual
USA Std: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
USA Sport: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
ROW Std: Front 154mm, Rear 147mm
ROW Sport: Front 144mm, Rear 127mm
Carrera S / 4S: Same as Sport for USA / ROW as appropriate
Carrera RS: Front 124mm, Rear 107mm
Measurements are plus/minus 10mm
So from this, note that Carrera RS was a full 50mm or about 2" lower than US Std !
My own car is lowered to halfway between ROW Sport and RS settings - very occasionally my 18" (Hollow Spoke Turbo) wheels will scrape going over very broken pavement. But only very occasionally - like I can remember it maybe twice.
From this, I deduce you wouldn't want to go much lower than ROW Sport - or, say 1.25" lower than US Std. without starting to think pretty carefully about rubbing, wheel offsets etc.
Hope this is helpful
Chris
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Instructor
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 179
Likes: 21
From: sf ca
Mine went from a front fender well "top of the arch" height of 27" down to 26". I had the fender wells rolled and have a scrape bar at the nose. I like the look of the car and wouldn't take it any lower, as the scrape bar gets plenty of use as it is.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 418
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From: New Jersey, USA
Roger,
Thanks. Nice basis for comparison. Mine is about a quarter of an inch lower on the fronts. As I said before, seems fine and no rubbing even with adult wt in rear seat but previous owner did it so am not sure about exact stuff done. Also rear measures just that little bit lower than front - maybe another quarter inch atleast insofar as the fender way of measuring in the manner you described. What I have:-
Front:- Eibach springs; Bilstein adjustable gas struts; Adjustable Porsche
swaybar; strut brace
Rear:- bilstein adjustable; rear sway bar adjustable; adjustable sway links, teflon greasable bushings.
Rob W,
haha... funny guy huh. The 5 9 part was the problem due to lower roof, NOT the 130 lbs of unsprung wt. BTW, after all those turbo mods on your car, if you need any bod mod, you know, I'm your man!! new slicks for the treadmill for some 0 - 8 mph in 7 secs and lotsa other commercial grade fit equip in basement - college job was trainer. So any and all kinds of mods available from washboards to pump up looks. Haven't dyno'd car but have dyno'd self. Rob, did you do any suspension mods on the car of course? I read that thread about your power mods but do not recall susp mods. Thx.
Thanks. Nice basis for comparison. Mine is about a quarter of an inch lower on the fronts. As I said before, seems fine and no rubbing even with adult wt in rear seat but previous owner did it so am not sure about exact stuff done. Also rear measures just that little bit lower than front - maybe another quarter inch atleast insofar as the fender way of measuring in the manner you described. What I have:-
Front:- Eibach springs; Bilstein adjustable gas struts; Adjustable Porsche
swaybar; strut brace
Rear:- bilstein adjustable; rear sway bar adjustable; adjustable sway links, teflon greasable bushings.
Rob W,
haha... funny guy huh. The 5 9 part was the problem due to lower roof, NOT the 130 lbs of unsprung wt. BTW, after all those turbo mods on your car, if you need any bod mod, you know, I'm your man!! new slicks for the treadmill for some 0 - 8 mph in 7 secs and lotsa other commercial grade fit equip in basement - college job was trainer. So any and all kinds of mods available from washboards to pump up looks.
Haven't dyno'd car but have dyno'd self. Rob, did you do any suspension mods on the car of course? I read that thread about your power mods but do not recall susp mods. Thx.
Rennlist Member
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 423
Likes: 225
From: Franklin, TN
Ran,
Thanks for rolling with my feeble attempt at humor!
You are indeed correct - I have not done any suspension mods. Kind of saved those for last and now I'm evaluating the merits of H&R versus Bilstein coilovers. I am hoping to achieve the elusive "better handling without bone-jarring ride" goal. After the suspension, I may do cat bypass pipes or I might just call it a day and drive the hell out of the car for as long as I can!
Thanks for rolling with my feeble attempt at humor!
You are indeed correct - I have not done any suspension mods. Kind of saved those for last and now I'm evaluating the merits of H&R versus Bilstein coilovers. I am hoping to achieve the elusive "better handling without bone-jarring ride" goal. After the suspension, I may do cat bypass pipes or I might just call it a day and drive the hell out of the car for as long as I can!