I found a 96 C4S in Polar Silver/Black leather, 58k mi, no litronics, with pics at: <a href="http://www.worldwidewheels.com/cfapps/searchindex.htm" target="_blank">http://www.worldwidewheels.com/cfapps/searchindex.htm</a> (don't know if this link will work). It's 2nd owner, a Porsche fanatic just traded it into Luxury Motors in Illinois for a 2002 C4S. It's the right color, in the right price range, so I had Gino at Luxury bring it to Napleton Porsche today for a PPI ($315 - ouch!).

Excited as heck, I finally heard back from Kerry at Napleton Porsche and was told it was well maintained service wise (he did the 15,30, 45 and 60k services), and the body was in excellent shape with no paintwork to their knowledge, no rash on the wheels, just some spots where it had been polished and cleaned up before, and the Carfax came up clean - but it needed a new clutch and flywheel right away ($4134 pts and labor was the dealer's price - high by $1000, yes?), the windshield was delaminating ($1100), new front pads/rotors ($679 ft brake pads and rotors, $315 sensors total $1044 - like double my independent's price?!), rear tires needed asap ($859.38 Pirelli Assymeticals 285/30ZR18), Fog lights don't work ($55 labor for 30 minutes - fuse? bulb?), and $375 to remove the lower cam cover as the gasket's (?) leaking oil (Napleton said 993's shouldn't leak oil as they are tighter than the previous years -yes?). The total in his book is about $6500 for all the fixes. I'm guessing an independent's price would be 3/4's of that if even that much. I told Gino from Luxury that I was dissappointed it needed so much, and he said I'd be better off having his dealership do the repairs, as the Porsche place is extremely high, and his Bentley mechanics work on their Porsches all the time. He could have tire rack send 4 tires directly there, etc...

Napleton said that maybe if Luxury replaced the windshield and if I took care of the rest of the stuff on my own, then the car at $40,500 would be a good deal. Any thoughts? My wife said not to let Luxury touch the car as I can't bring it back to them if there is a problem. They want $800 to ship the car 610 miles to my house in Silver Spring MD. Is that alot? I never bought a car long distance like this without seeing it before. Gino said it's a "10" in body and interior, better than most he's seen - no nicks or dings, minor scrapes to the front bumper but nothing deep (normal from what I've seen), 3 highway chips on nose, no curb rash on the wheels, under the drivers door latch there is one small scratch on the paint. It was owned by a Porsche-loving surgeon, all the records are on file at a Porsche dealership in their computer which they read to me.

Gino said it's almost perfect (I know, yeah right). It's got a Nakamichi indash CD/AM/FM (sweet), K40 built in (sweet), dual power seats, 18" wheels with Porsche crests.

Sound OK? It's well under my $50k budget out the door with everything fixed including taxes. The wife thinks I should have them ship it for the $800 and let my local independent guy do all the work that needs to be done. To fly out there instead and drive it back, I'd need new rear tires, and hopefully the clutch will last the whole way. Napleton Porsche said that as long as I drove it smoothly, it should make it here fine with just rear tires replaced and that's it. I don't really want to part with 1 whole day out of my life to do this, and my wife kind of needs me here this week. Is shipping safe?

I'm new to all this. I thought recently I would just get a 996 for the same price, but I've decided since one hasn't come up yet, and I really just don't like the way they look, this might be a better bet. DC from Cape Cod further assured me that anything other than a 993 would have me wishing I bought one anyway! Any Rennlisters in the Downer's Grove area that could see the car for me??? I have a $5000 refundable deposit holding the car on my credit card. I think it's still at Napleton Porsche awaiting a wiring harness on Monday.

Thanks in advance,
Maybe joining the fold of 993 drivers soon,
Steve
Silver Spring MD
301 871 8617 <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

 

Here is the wise advice. Buy the car but don't have any work done out of state. Go pick it up yourself and drive it back. Don't pay until you see it and finalize the deal in person.

If you take any other approach you're going to be writing another story about it here in a few weeks.

 

Jc's right ... spend the money on the plane ticket, drive it home if you like it and have the work done locally.

Sounds like the dealer's giving you the Ben Dover retail price on all that work ... $4000 for a clutch? And how do they know the flywheel needs to be replaced? And $859 for two tires?

Dealer retail is just nuts on many repairs ... the dealer in Kansas wanted $1850 to put a clutch in my 87 930; I drove it to my independent in Florida and he did it for $800.

I doubt the tires are so bad that you can't put 600 more miles on 'em. But the shipping price is not unreasonable. But fly out and see it, you'll be much happier in the long run. You want to see every little ding and scratch before you hand over the check.

Vic
95 C4

 

Steve

I figured it out......you are really Tom Clancy warming up for your next book....you live in the same area

What kind of Porsche is the main character going to drive....surely not a Porsche that has to be followed by a towing company..

Call Hatch and Son and offer them $53000....offer to wire the funds....maybe you will be the owner of a POLAR SILVER OVER BLACK C4S with 10,000 miles at $55,000....that was your budget right?

Did you ever stop and wonder how the good doctor let his perfect looking Porsche get in the condition you described.....it didn't all happen yesterday

Good Luck

 

Berkley - I agree 100%, that is the same advice I gave him as well.

Buy Quality, buy quality, buy quality.

It's like real estate....but instead of location you buy quality.

 

Stever,
You got some great advice and there is nothing I can add except: If you need a new clutch let me know. I have a 13K mile clutch and flywheel I took off of my 993 before it became a race car that I will sell for cheap if you need it.
Good Luck,
Greg

 

Thanks for the advice Berkeley and DC - but why is the car I'm looking at not quality? Isn't a clutch just wear and tear? Aren't the front pads and rotors and the rear wheels just wear and tear? The lower cam cover gasket leaking oil- isn't that easily fixable for the $375 the stealer quoted me? I appreciate the suggestion of calling up Hatch and Sons about their $59k 96 C4S w/ 10,000 miles, but I can't afford that much! I do have $55k to play with in total, including tax, registration, tags, & all initial repairs leading up to a great driving and looking vehicle. $55k for a 96 C4S? That's a heck of alot for a 7 year old car. Even if the Hatch and Sons car could be bought for $55k, it's going to need something, and I'm still way over budget with tax and tags!

There's a local car, the 97 C4S w/25k mi <a href="http://www.his.com/~vos/" target="_blank">http://www.his.com/~vos/</a> that the owner has gone down to $54,600 from $56,200, but that's still $2100 above my budget. I emailed him that $52500 is the most I could do, but haven't heard back.

I got a few emails that said I should buy the $40,450 96 C4S in Downers Grove and just fix it, one gent suggested offering them $32k and settle on $34k (which I'm sure they won't go for). When I called Gino he said another salesman had someone on their way over to look at it/buy it (I know, you're smirking right about now), so I jumped on it with the $5000 deposit. It sounded like such a great idea to get the higher mileage, lower cost car, as I'd lose less money if I traded out of it in 3-6 years this way. How much lower than $40k is that car going to go? Not much, I would think. But, if I bought the Hatch and Sons car, I would be much more paranoid about it, where I parked it, and I think at a buy price of about $55k it would lose a larger proportional amount of money in the 3-6 year period.

Dazed and confused,
Steve <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" />

 

Steve,

If you want a car without any faults (or you expect the PO to fix everything on his dime) then you need to realize that you will pay more. If you are looking at a $40K C4S then you can assume that it is not a 10.

On the other hand, if $55K (plus extras) is too much but $52K+ is OK then perhaps you should look for a car that better fits your budget. Look at a C2 perhaps.

My advice is still to buy the best example of a car that you can afford. There is nothing about a 7 year old car that automatically makes it bad, not when we are talking about this type of car.

Nor is there anything bad about higher mileage.

There is something wrong with a PO that didn't maintain his car.

By now you should have seen from personal experience that the Porsches that held their value the best are those that in in excellent shape with low miles. This will continue to be true. I am not saying that they will not depreciate...just that they will not depreciate as fast as their bretheren that have higher miles and are in lesser condition.

Either buy a mint car and budget something for a daily driver or buy a daily driver 993 and expect to put some money into it.

Why not buy a 1996 C2 in mint condition with low miles for $40K - $43K and pocket the balance of your budget. Use it for mods or driving school. or use it for a short-money daily driver.

 

Something's fishy about a 59K mile car in that condition, and a salesman who says hurry. If you really like the color and options, I would dig a little deeper and offer what it will take to get the local '97 w/25K. If your budget is $55K, spend it or do the fashionable thing and go over a bit. Otherwise it's like putting caviar on a hamburger bun.

 

Stever,

The $4,134 clutch quote is way too high.
I paid $1,700 for a C4S clutch and dealer quote was $2,200.
Months later, I found a shop that would do it for $1,500.
These were quotes from the Seattle/ Bellevue area.

I paid $825 for shipping a C4S 2,500 miles.
-Get some other freight quotes!

As from your description -it sounds like a good deal!
You be the Judge -life doesn't get any "gooder".


Good luck!

 

stever,
you might want to have another PPI done. just my 2 cents, but the people doing these PPI's...are just like anyone else....Sales people
I see it over and over...People Take the PPI's to be GOSPEL....they are trying to make a living, and if the can get some one to fork over 6500. for work....well they did there JOB. The first clue, I saw when reading your post was the amount of money they wanted!...2 tires for 859?? for a few hundie more, you can get all 4...front brake job with rotors and pads at 1100??...hmmm two rotors at 125 each.....and pads at 100.00 thats 350 + labor..my volvo mechanic did the job for me in about an hour!!....a clutch at 4100. ??? lets see you can get a light lwf pkg from gert for about 1400.00(euro)...plus labor?...even for 10 hours of labor at 80. ...is a whole lot less than 4100.00......and on and on....oh yeah, how long did this PPI take?......

 

Stever,

To answer some of your specific quesitons:

Yes, I would possibly buy a car sight unseen given enough hi-res pictures and a clean PPI from a top-end independent, but it would have to be a museum piece, NOT one in this condition.

Yes, the prices sound very high, even with $100/hr labor rates.

Regarding transport, I am paying $1100 to ship a car 1350 miles enclosed. If it were summer I would drive it myself but there are 2 mountain ranges and a large windy, sand-blasting desert between the car and it's new garage.

Finally, as someone else mentioned, how Porsche-loving can the PO be if it was in this shape? And the Gino guy describes it as perfect?

Good luck,

 

[quote]Finally, as someone else mentioned, how Porsche-loving can the PO be if it was in this shape? And the Gino guy describes it as perfect? <hr></blockquote>
COuld the PPI'er be at fault here?..I can say this, I am an avid fan of my car, and do all I can to maintane...etc....BUT if you put here under an electron microscope..?????

 

Phil raises a good point. Many owners might think they are taking good care of their car but when compared to an enthusiast's opinion or that of a mechanic...it could be a different story.

If you are going to spend this much money on a used car you should (IMO) buy it from someone who cared about it at least as much as you will.

13 posts, 9 different opinions and it still comes down to you making a decision that you can live with...(grin)!!

 

Hey Phil - yeah, that dealer did quote high prices, and they admitted that the area they are in is like Rodeo Drive. They quoted 17 hours to do the clutch, flywheel and flywheel bolts at $105 an hour. That's why the quote came to $4134 total. I guess there's no one in the Downer's Grove area that's on Rennlist who could check out this car? The dealer knew I wouldn't be having the car fixed there, so I don't think that they're "padding" the PPI in hopes of them doing the work. They said they actually have to turn away work they are so busy. If that's so, how were they able to do the PPI on a moments notice today, instead of scheduling it out for next week? I called Luxury Motors midday to put the deposit down, and 1 hour later they had dropped the car off at Napleton Porsche ready to be PPI'd!

Too bad. Why is it that all the reasonably priced cars are always so far away? As for DC's suggestion to go with a primo example of a 96 C2 for around $43-46k instead of the higher mileage C4S's, there did happen to be a 25k mi 1996 C2 6 sp, Polar Silver over Black show up at my local HBL Porsche dealer last week. The sales guy called me letting me know it was just traded in. I went there the next day, Jan 1 and they were closed and the car was across the street getting inspected so I missed it. By the time I called him the next day, the car had been... sold! Two people wanted the car, too. They sold it for around the quoted price, $39,995. I guess the good ones go fast.

I'm torn. If only I could "see" the car without taking a plane out there. If only it didn't have so much stuff needed on it... I'm surprised a place like Luxury wouldn't put new tires on a car, fix a totally worn out clutch, & fix completely worn down brake pads on a car they are trying to sell. They could just charge more for it and the buyer would be certain it was in great shape right off the lot.

I'm thinking of passing on this car. The 58k miles are starting to wear on me, too. If it didn't need this much $$$'s into it, it would be a steal at $40,450. I can't keep spending $215 there, $315 there on PPI's for cars that seemingly suck. There has to be a better way. I could contact Brian Buxton, I guess, and pay HIM $155 to start the wheels in motion to find a car, but I'm still stuck with him being 6-7 hours away from me. Part of the "fun" of this, I thought, was for a "hunter" like myself to hunt out the car, find it, and carry it home over my shoulder. It takes the steam and excitement out of it if I have to pay someone else to perform this task, though admittingly I've spent gobs of time and $530 in PPI's + gas and tolls so far and have come up empty handed. Penny wise and pound foolish am I? Maybe.

This is partially the reason I was lately looking for a newer 2000 996. A low mile 996 under warranty ain't lookin too bad right now.

Steve
95 740i daily driver
99 XK8 her's

<img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />