In an effort to upgrade the safety equipment on my 96' 993TT, I have been contemplating installing six-point harnesses before my next DE. As some of the previous threads here have recommended NOT installing harnesses without additional rollover protection, I have been researching roll bars as well. My original intention was to add a harness bar and use rear mounted rastraints.

My goal is to build or buy a bar that can be bolted in and ideally tightly follows the body lines of the car as well. Although DAS and HEIGO seem to offer a quality piece, they are pretty expensive. I have been contemplating an Autopower bar(or equivalent)and then redesigning and fabricating the mounts to pick up the seat belt bolting points. I am a licensed professional engineer with decent MIG welding skills so I'm not worried about doing some structural fabrication.

Does anyone have the Autopower bar or other kit that they feel is well designed, compliments the interior design of their car, and lends itself to this type of fabrication? Is the additional rollover protection even necessary for DE type events? <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

 

Fred,
I contemplated the same ideas you are, and did a lot of looking before I spent the money on a das bar. The autopower is a good bar, but I've heard the install is not all that straightforward. And, the build quality looked average, and not up to par with the rest of the car. Also, to make that bar bolt in, I think you would have to make some structural compromises--expert welder or not.
I ended up buying the das, and have been very pleased. When I got it, I planned to just spray gun it myself, but ended up having a friend powdercoat it. It came out great, and looks like something the factory would put out. I was a little worried about the strength of a bolt in bar, but after putting it in, and seeing how much it stiffened up the car (no more twisting of the body leaving my uneven driveway), I'm convinced it's plenty stout. Also, it hugs the pillars and roofline very closely.
You're driving a turbo; do yourself a favor and get the better bar; you'll be happier in the long run. Besides, you won't lose much money if you sell it later on (I looked all over for a used one before buying).
You're going to love the harnesses; that's the best track mod I've done so far--the difference is pretty amazing.

David

 

Dude,

You are driving a $80,000 + car...don't quibble over $500. The DAS-sport is a beautiful bar...treat yourself.

 

[quote]Originally posted by Fred H:
<strong>In an effort to upgrade the safety equipment on my 96' 993TT, I have been contemplating installing six-point harnesses before my next DE.
&lt;snip&gt;
Is the additional rollover protection even necessary for DE type events? <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Fred,

I've been doing DE's for 10 years (the last 7 years seriously) and it seems that I see at least two roll-overs a year. Now the 993 is a sturdy safe car, and chances are you'll survive, but really, think about it. If the rollbar saves you even one night in a hospital with tests and such, it has paid for itself. And when you think about how badly hurt you could get, it's damn cheap.

As for the harnesses, that will be the best money spent for improving your driving, by keeping you firmly in your seat, reducing fatigue and keeping you safe(r) if you do hit something. And a harness is dangerous without a rollbar.

BTDT. Hit the wall at Road Atlanta with a five point harnesses, walked away (only injury was from the air bag). Sold that car to a friend who later drove it into the ARMCO at VIR at about 65 MPH and he also walked away, although the car is now toast (RIP).

Michael

 

[quote]Originally posted by MJBird993:
<strong>
BTDT. Hit the wall at Road Atlanta with a five point harnesses, walked away (only injury was from the air bag). Sold that car to a friend who later drove it into the ARMCO at VIR at about 65 MPH and he also walked away, although the car is now toast (RIP).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Michael, where'd he hit at VIR? Exit of Southbend?

E. J.

 

I second what Martin and David have said. Adding the DAS rollbar was one of the best mods I have made on my 993tt. I paid a paint shop $100 and they painted it to match my car. After I installed it (easy DIY!) people immediately assume it was some sort of factory option.

Go with DAS!

 

Thanks to everyone for sharing their opinions and personal experiences. I bought the DAS bar this evening.

It will be interesting to see which mounting system the bar has. I have seen two different styles that refer to this application. One has the main hoop with legs curved toward the front of the car to pick up the seatbelt mounts. The other (recently on ebay) has a bar that runs across the tunnel from seatbelt mount to seatbelt mount. The main hoop then bolts to this bar. I'm sure whichever one comes will work fine.

Thanks again,

Fred <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

Kim,

I did order it with the harness guides installed only because I am concerned with the possibility of the shoulder belts slipping down around the stock sport seats. I plan to mount the harnesses to the rear seat belt bolts and will probably use a sternum strap as well.

I don't know if they are worth the $90 adder but it does make one less place for the belts to move around. They would be fairly easy to fabricate after the fact....just the hassle factor needs to be considered. If the guides do need repositioning, I'll just move them myself. By the way, if you do order the bar with harness guides, be sure to specify whether you have factory or aftermarket seats. It makes a difference on the placement.

Fred <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

Fred,

I've also purchased the DAS bar, although I have not installed it yet. I purchased it not only for the rollover protection, but also to have something on which to securely anchor the Teamtech harnesses.

I've also purchased two GT3 seats from Gert in custom chestnut brown leather to match my interior. I found that I really had to brace myself with my feets and hands when using the factory sports seats in the corners on previous DE's.

I'm thinking of getting some matching chestnut brown leather to cover the DAS roll bar, to give it more of a factory look.

Good luck with your decision.

 

Great thread guys,

This is something I've been wondering about for a while. I do a lot of DE's and wanted to go with a 6pt. but like others was told to do a roll bar at the same time.

So my question is, I'm not much of a DIY guy. Unfortunately I'm not very handy unless it's electronics.

So my question is, how much will a set up like this cost soup to nuts?? (installed, painted, etc.)

I have factory sport seats and because of all your recommendations would be buying the DAS..

Thanks for the info.
Seth

also, could someone please post pics and a list of what I need to buy for the whole kit.
(or does anyone have a recommendation for a shop in L.A. that has done these before..)

 

Anir,

I know exactly what you mean! Even with my stock belts cinched down as tight as I could get them, I bounced around quite a bit. Although I was truly concentrating on developing a smooth driving technique, sliding around in the seat made smooth braking and shifting a challenge.

My son and I started doing DE's together this year and our mod's are being limited to enhancing safety and developing the skills to properly and responsibly drive these wonderful cars. Please let me know how your seat/bar/harness combination works out.

Fred <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />

 

[quote]Originally posted by Fred H:
<strong>Anir, ...My son and I started doing DE's together this year and our mod's are being limited to enhancing safety and developing the skills to properly and responsibly drive these wonderful cars. Please let me know how your seat/bar/harness combination works out. Fred</strong><hr></blockquote>

Fred,

I sure will, although it may be some time before all the parts arrive. I ordered the seats in 2/01, and Gert estimates that it could take 4-12 months to get them due to the unusual color.

That's great that you are doing DE's with your son. My son is only 4 1/2 years old, and we're looking at getting into karting together. I can't wait until the day when we can go to PCA DE and Club Racing events together.

 

I installed the bar, harnesses, and sparco evo2 seat before my last de, and it made a huge difference.
The install isn't very hard at all, you just have to handle the bar carefully since its heavy and scratches easy. I powdercoated mine which I think is the best way to go. It cost $120. That is the only extra expense I had with the bar. The only tricky part is drilling for the inboard lap belts (harnesses) into the tunnel, which you have to be careful to clear the oil lines in the tunnel. Drilling for the sub belt is easy, and bray krause sells a nice mount that ties into the regular seatbelt for the outboard lap belt for $65. I don't really see any advantage to anchoring the shoulder belts way back at the rear seat mounts (The bar is much stronger), and the harnesses guides are definately neccessary if you anchor the shoulder belts on the bar. If you guys end up installing the das/harnesses/seat yourself, give me a shout and I can probably save you some time since I just put mine in myself. Good luck, you'll all be happy you did this modification.

ps--harnesses are a real pain on the street (you'll see what I mean when you get them) If you keep your stock seat you won't have any problems, but if you go to a racing seat, you'll have to reattach the seatbelt receptacle to the inboard eye bolt, or the rear side mount bolt of the seat. I've tried both and I think I'm going back to the second option. Anyone else gone through this?

 

Fred,

The DAS bar that curves forward and mounts to the outboard from seat belt mounts is for pre-89 911s. The one that bolts to the rear outboard seat belt mounts across the front of the rear seats is for 964 and 993 coupes. I have been told by the guys at DAS (Colin Dougherty) that the older 911 bar will not fit the 993. While I have heard other people claim to fit that bar, supposedly the front foot mounting point in the 993 is too high for the base of the foot to rest on the floor of the car. This makes the single bolt support the full impact of any downward force on the bar as opposed to spreading some of that weight onto the floor of the car.

I hope that you have the right one coming.

 

how about the techart rollbar, it mounts to the seatbelt points and is very nice. i have it and ordered it from joe at germantech in FL