Any differences in track with non-vram and vram 993's?
05-22-2002, 11:46 PM
#61
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Gents,
Like Mike, I have driven both back to back, my 95 and a friends/students 96. This was the South course at VIR about 18 months ago. There is an uphill right hand turn off the backstraight - pretty steep uphill in 3rd gear starting to pull at about 3500 rpm. This was the only place on the track where I could feel a difference between the two cars - the 96 pulled noticably harder up the hill. There was no scientific method to my comparison whatsoever - we all know my car has a lot of miles and the 96 had only about 30k miles. But I have always considered my car to be pretty strong.
Anyway, other than the uphill section, the cars seemed pretty even. As has already been said, they are all great cars, lets all enjoy them.
E. J.'
Like Mike, I have driven both back to back, my 95 and a friends/students 96. This was the South course at VIR about 18 months ago. There is an uphill right hand turn off the backstraight - pretty steep uphill in 3rd gear starting to pull at about 3500 rpm. This was the only place on the track where I could feel a difference between the two cars - the 96 pulled noticably harder up the hill. There was no scientific method to my comparison whatsoever - we all know my car has a lot of miles and the 96 had only about 30k miles. But I have always considered my car to be pretty strong.
Anyway, other than the uphill section, the cars seemed pretty even. As has already been said, they are all great cars, lets all enjoy them.
E. J.'
05-23-2002, 02:56 AM
#62
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Finn -
Sorry for my rather obtuse attempt at humor - I was just poking fun at the general which car is faster discussion. If we were concerned about getting faster cars for less money we would all have Mustang Cobra SVT's on order or be driving Z06s.
As for the C4 being slower - not so - the Porsche 993 manual has the C4 at 0-60 in 5.2 seconds vs. 5.3 for the C2. This is due to the fact that despite the C4 gaining 100 pounds from the AWD system, the C4 delivers engine power more efficiently than the C2.
Sorry for my rather obtuse attempt at humor - I was just poking fun at the general which car is faster discussion. If we were concerned about getting faster cars for less money we would all have Mustang Cobra SVT's on order or be driving Z06s.
As for the C4 being slower - not so - the Porsche 993 manual has the C4 at 0-60 in 5.2 seconds vs. 5.3 for the C2. This is due to the fact that despite the C4 gaining 100 pounds from the AWD system, the C4 delivers engine power more efficiently than the C2.
05-23-2002, 08:15 AM
#63
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Hey Bill,
mine was kinda tongue in a cheek also, glad you took it that way.
I'm surprised though (that C4 is faster than C2), I mean, these things doesn't burn rubber like Viper or something so I always though that C2 is faster...
Mustangs etc. I totally agree!
mine was kinda tongue in a cheek also, glad you took it that way.
I'm surprised though (that C4 is faster than C2), I mean, these things doesn't burn rubber like Viper or something so I always though that C2 is faster...
Mustangs etc. I totally agree!
05-23-2002, 10:38 AM
#64
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I think we are on to a conspiracy here!! Seems as if Porsche has engineered the cars to become slower every year!
If fact MY 1970 has no problems even with 996TTs! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
As with ANY mass produced car, variances are much larger than the manufacturer would have you believe. So SOME 95s will be faster out of the box than SOME vario model, but this is the exception and not the rule.
If fact MY 1970 has no problems even with 996TTs! <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
As with ANY mass produced car, variances are much larger than the manufacturer would have you believe. So SOME 95s will be faster out of the box than SOME vario model, but this is the exception and not the rule.
05-23-2002, 11:49 AM
#65
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Man, this is a long thread. about a page ago, i was debating which 993 to get, so i went for test drive, it must have been a slow day because the sales guy and I drove a number of cars. 96 993, 93 RS America, 88 Turbo, i wanted to try various generations of 911 to compare. the 88 and 93 are too"raw" for my taste. So far, i prefer the 993, it's great allrounder, smooth yet very agile. Now i just need to try a 95 993 to compare. thanks
norman
norman
05-23-2002, 12:47 PM
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Don't forget, Norman, now that you have read this long thread you will know that if a 993 is what you want you should go for a:
1) early model (lighter, 2wd)
2) narrow body (less drag)
3) non-S (more expensive=slower)
4) non-TT (terrible out of the blocks)
Then, when you have got the car don't forget to:
1) keep the spare tyre in
2) only use road rubber
3) tell us all about it
Enjoy, one and all. <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
1) early model (lighter, 2wd)
2) narrow body (less drag)
3) non-S (more expensive=slower)
4) non-TT (terrible out of the blocks)
Then, when you have got the car don't forget to:
1) keep the spare tyre in
2) only use road rubber
3) tell us all about it
Enjoy, one and all.
<img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />
05-23-2002, 01:53 PM
#67
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Hey Chris can you elaborate what a 73 RSR? What are the specs and if any mods were done? I think people would like to know what you got : ). Another thing I like to ask is the ride on the 993 firmer and the steering lighter because Norman drove my car and he says my ride is firmer and steering is heavier(I think the 18 inch rims probably had alot to do with it since the one he drove wore 17 inch rims). I hope to test drive one myself to see since opinions can differ. This is a fun post- it's got everything from bragging rights to technical specs. Great info altogether. Regards. Mike
05-23-2002, 02:13 PM
#68
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[quote]<strong>Hey Chris can you elaborate what a 73 RSR? What are the specs and if any mods were done? I think people would like to know what you got : ). </strong><hr></blockquote>
Mike:
I was fortunate to purchase a well prepared 73 RSR replica from Mr. Tom Bobbit (VP of PCA National.) Tom prepared a great car, the kind that transforms average drivers like me into a good driver and transforms a great driver into, well, you get the picture.
The car is built on a 70 chassis but is a good 73 RSR replica. 3.3L, about 330HP, 2100 lbs.
Yeeeeehaw <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
Mike:
I was fortunate to purchase a well prepared 73 RSR replica from Mr. Tom Bobbit (VP of PCA National.) Tom prepared a great car, the kind that transforms average drivers like me into a good driver and transforms a great driver into, well, you get the picture.
The car is built on a 70 chassis but is a good 73 RSR replica. 3.3L, about 330HP, 2100 lbs.
Yeeeeehaw <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
05-23-2002, 02:34 PM
#69
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Well Chris' car can hardly be called a stock 73 RSR. The 73 RS is considered by many to be the best pure 911 ever built. 210 HP stock and very lightweight. It wasn't until the 993 was released that Porsche started to approach the power to weight ratio of the 73 RSR. By the way, these are now worth a lot of money -
see:
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1830306414" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1830306414</a>
see:
<a href="http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1830306414" target="_blank">http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1830306414</a>
05-23-2002, 02:46 PM
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Bill,
Don't confuse the RS and the RSR. RS was a street ride, the RSR was race only with wide fenders and huge slicks.
Chris's car is a rocket. He passed me at Mid Ohio on the back straight like I was sitting still. I guess that happens when you only have 6 lbs to push with each hp instead of close to 10. 
Don't confuse the RS and the RSR. RS was a street ride, the RSR was race only with wide fenders and huge slicks.
Chris's car is a rocket. He passed me at Mid Ohio on the back straight like I was sitting still. I guess that happens when you only have 6 lbs to push with each hp
instead of close to 10.
05-23-2002, 02:50 PM
#71
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Greg - was the RSR stock at 330 HP?
I am having some work done on my 930 and hope to see 450 HP at .8 bar when it is done - that puts it at around 6:1 in the weight to power category. Should be interesitng to see how it compares to my rather fat 993TT.
I am having some work done on my 930 and hope to see 450 HP at .8 bar when it is done - that puts it at around 6:1 in the weight to power category. Should be interesitng to see how it compares to my rather fat 993TT.
05-23-2002, 03:04 PM
#72
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Can I say 73 RSR- awesome power-to-weight ratio. Very nice ride!!! Can you offer to say how much that car costs? Darn I need to get another Porsche to make into full track car : ). Regards. Mike
05-23-2002, 03:10 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by ZCAT3:
<strong>Greg - was the RSR stock at 330 HP?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not sure about the HP. I would guess it is in that range.
Here is another
RSR.
<a href="http://www.gunnarracing.com/sale/74RSR/74RSR-1113.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunnarracing.com/sale/74RSR/74RSR-1113.htm</a>
Here is some info about this particular car:
<a href="http://www.gunnarracing.com/project/RSRs/75RSRhist2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunnarracing.com/project/RSRs/75RSRhist2.htm</a>
<strong>Greg - was the RSR stock at 330 HP?
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Not sure about the HP. I would guess it is in that range.
Here is another
RSR.
<a href="http://www.gunnarracing.com/sale/74RSR/74RSR-1113.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunnarracing.com/sale/74RSR/74RSR-1113.htm</a>
Here is some info about this particular car:
<a href="http://www.gunnarracing.com/project/RSRs/75RSRhist2.htm" target="_blank">http://www.gunnarracing.com/project/RSRs/75RSRhist2.htm</a>
05-23-2002, 03:32 PM
#74
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[quote]Originally posted by Silver Bullet:
<strong>Pink Porsches?...
</strong><hr></blockquote>
How about this one?
<a href="http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/po917_20.htm" target="_blank">http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/po917_20.htm</a>
<strong>Pink Porsches?...
</strong><hr></blockquote>How about this one?
<a href="http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/po917_20.htm" target="_blank">http://leo.worldonline.es/jaumepor/angles/porsches/po917_20.htm</a>
05-23-2002, 04:45 PM
#75
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[quote]Originally posted by 996FLT6:
<strong>Can I say 73 RSR- awesome power-to-weight ratio. Very nice ride!!! Can you offer to say how much that car costs? Darn I need to get another Porsche to make into full track car : ). Regards. Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>
The car is not for sale at this time, but if and when I finally sell it, somewhere in the $45 - $55 range depending upon the wear and tear, and whatever illustrious accolades <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> it helps me accomplish...
Eventually I will wind up with an 02 or 03 cup car. I wanted to prove to myself that I can actually drive an older 911 at the limit before moving onto the new machinery.
<strong>Can I say 73 RSR- awesome power-to-weight ratio. Very nice ride!!! Can you offer to say how much that car costs? Darn I need to get another Porsche to make into full track car : ). Regards. Mike</strong><hr></blockquote>
The car is not for sale at this time, but if and when I finally sell it, somewhere in the $45 - $55 range depending upon the wear and tear, and whatever illustrious accolades <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> it helps me accomplish...
Eventually I will wind up with an 02 or 03 cup car. I wanted to prove to myself that I can actually drive an older 911 at the limit before moving onto the new machinery.