swftiii

I used to be with USAA but went to State Farm and got a yes when directly asked if they cover DE events. I have recently been barking it up the latter at USAA to get it reviewed and covered, but after a strong start and everything I haven't heard anything from them in a while and therefore don't believe they will cover PCA DE. They were able to cover my Dad for Audi DE, but not PCA. I'm still working it and will post to let folks know the outcome.

-Skip

Speedraser

Boris,
I'm glad you asked. I looked at my policy, and to my surprise I can find no exclusions beyond excluding incidents that occur during, or in practice for, a "speed contest." That is what my policy said a few years ago. A year or so ago, after much discussion on these boards about USAA changing their policy on DEs, I clearly remember that they expanded the exclusionary clauses to include references to race tracks, and specifically excluded events that were intended to improve one's driving ability (that is what the policy said!). I remember this because I was amazed at the notion that they would actually state that they excluded something that would make their insureds better drivers! I thought that at least they could've found a smarter way of saying it. I interpreted it as a clear reference to non-competitive track events like DEs, however, and it was an addition to the previous "speed contest" exclusions. It was different from my previous year's policy.

What is VERY interesting is that it appears that those additional exclusionary clauses are absent from my latest policy. I really wonder what this means. Nevertheless, the policy does NOT appear to exclude DEs, IMO.

Skip,
What is the difference b/w Audi DE and PCA DE, according to USAA?

mdd

Here is the reply from my State Farm agent's underwriter as a result of my asking for a more thoughtful review:

"I checked with Larry on this and there is no racing exclusion on the policy. Though we are uncomfortable with this type of activity from a coverage and underwriting perspective our policy does not exclude such an activity so coverage would be provided."

My agent agrees so I am covered for DE events.

Rick Lee

State Farm, here I come.

mick

This post had me scared. I'm doing my first DE this weekend and just assumed I was covered. Looked at my policy (Cincinnati Insurance) and it states: " Loss to any motor vehicle, while located inside a facility designed for racing;" is not covered. Contacted my agent and they contacted the company who agreed that as long as it is educational in nature and not considered racing, then I am covered.

TheOtherEric

Anyone know about State Farm's policies in Illinois? Heck, I'd go read my policy but I don't think they've ever sent me a copy.

Greg Fishman

If I were you I would not take the verbal interpretation over the written policy. If what the agent and underwriter say is true, get it in writting first.

Noel

American Collectors Insurance offers DE only Policies. The annual premium is equal to 1.5% of the agreed upon value of the car with a 20% deductible. It covers as many DEs as you can do in one year.

Here is a link to more info:

http://www.americancollectorsins.com/de_quali.htm


BTW, My Allstate policy for my daily drivers specifically excludes ANY track coverage including drivers education events.

Noel

BC

I need to second the statement made above regarding what people are asking and being told by their agents and/or underwriters, or even the agency's secretaries.

Any agent has E&O coverage. Its errors and omissions coverage so that if they say something is covered, and its not, and its proven that they made a mistake, its picked up in their insurance.

When the IRS gives "tax info" - I have had 2 clients that have been given verbal advice by an IRS rep, then DID whatever they were asking about. Subsequent - they were fined or somehow brought to bear for some fees associated. They argued that it was given to them by an IRS rep - well, the IRS asks where it is in writing.

That may be a far reaching example, but an insurance company will 110% stand by their contact wording, and if no real argument is put forward by the consumer, that wording will bend towards the COMPANY. In a court, ambiguous wording will always go towards the claimant - as it did in northridge, ca for the company that had ambiguous wording in their contracts for earth movement. The ins. company lost.

So.... If you think you would CLAIM when you have an accident at DE or any "track event" then get it in writing. The insurance company can still wiggle, but you do have a letter. You'll need COMPANY letterhead, more then just the agencies letterhead. If its a broker - even more so.

Insurance companies have Claims committees. They can bring your claim there if the agent did wrong and MAYBE still cover something. Or not.

I had a client that had an unowned vehicle in her household that I wasn't the original writing agent on. She switched this car every 4 month over a 3 year period before I got the account. She called to switch again and I said it wasn't a covered vehicle. She had been driving the cars without ACTUAL coverage because the agent before me simply said, "Sure, no problem, your covered," If she had a claim, it would have gone to committee. She never did, and since found other coverage, but....

Well, I've digressed. Its also a catch 22 as mentioned. If you ask - that means someone knows - now the agent usually, if the answer is immediate, will not have checked with the underwriter, and no "file" was kept on that conversation. But if it goes up a chain of some sort, and then there is a no, if there was ANY OTHER claim, then you may have an uphill battle if it was a one car accident.

Wow, I'll stop typing now. I hope that info helped shed some light on how stuff works, but hey, even if it didn't.

Greg Fishman

Brendan,
Great summary. In Kentucky our required amount of E&O insurance is only $10k. That is also why most agents I know also have large liability policies.

swftiii

Todd - The Audi club was very generous with information for USAA insurance which included classroom curriclum and exercises on the track. It didn't sound much like the DEs we run, but more like a High Performance Driving Clinic (like what is done in the Potomac region).

I called my contact at USAA earlier today and she has not been able to get enough information out of my region's DE chair or anyone else to help get it covered. I'm going to call PCA National tomorrow and see if I can talk them into supporting their membership by supplying a DE summary that better explains the focus on learning and safety in hopes it will be covered. I'll explain to PCA national what is going on and see what they can try to do to help us all out.

I'll keep you all posted.

Mark in Baltimore

Mark/mdd,

Sorry, I just returned to this thread. If you still need the letter, PM me.

hddude

This thread ought to be studied in law schools' insurance law classes. Let me get this straight: Some of you believe if your policy is silent on DEs, if call your insurance company and ask if you are covered for DEs and they say no, they'll note your call and later deny coverage. But, if you play dumb, they'll cover you? Or if they say yes and the policy is silent on track and high speed use, you'll definitely be covered? All of this sounds like nonsense, but I suppose an insurer can say or do all sorts of odd things unless an insurance commissioner or court says otherwise. In the meantime, I wouldn't drive my 993 in DEs or any other track/high speed activity unless my insurance specifically permits it.

ceboyd

great.. I have Allstate.. I guess I'm going to call my agent tomorrow but I could swear I asked him this before and he said as long as there isn't timing involved, it is covered... Now I'm wondering if I really did hear that or am just thinking I did or if somone else told me that is the norm...

YIKES!!!

Speedraser

Is there anyone in NY with State Farm who has any input on the State Farm in NY question?

The American Collectors coverage sounds interesting, but the deductible is HUGE.