Rick

Mike/mlincoln,

Just a thought...your rationale and your suggestions aren't all that far off - it's your way of communicating them. If you spend a moment thinking about how you communicate you might find that you don't **** people off as much.

Mark in Baltimore

I think I would be wasting my time by fully responding to your sweeping generalizations (i.e. do you know for a fact that those who have or desire open pipes or cat by-passes are not doing most of their driving on the track? Answer: No, you don't.)

mlincoln

Hi Rick,

Fair enough...I'll try to be more polite (even in the face of ad hominem attacks).

Best, Mike


Hi Mark,

I don't know if they use their cars mostly or exclusively on the track...that's why I asked (in a perhaps too inflammatory way, as Rick points out) in my first post. CMM was polite enough to reply in a civil manner and provide useful information that addresses the question.

How about you? Do you drive with open pipes or a cat bypass on public roads? I don't know...but I suspect many do--and I propose they should not. For that matter, I don't think that Joe six-pack should be allowed to jack up his truck to high heaven and subsequently override my 993 at a red light, thereby increasing my risk of death and injury.

In Germany, a nirvana often cited by some on this list, these sorts of rules are relentlessly enforced. One simply cannot have a cat bypass, loud mufflers, or illegal ride height: if the car even makes it to the yearly inspection without being stopped first and taken off the road toot sweet, it promptly fails and then can't be licensed until the mods are removed. That level of regulation, along with better roads, enforcement of good driving practices (e.g., following too close, hogging the left lane, exceeding posted speeds--all often detected by photo), and exemplary driver training makes Germany a relatively safe place to drive fast in the right place. In the USA, everyone makes their own rules and the result can be dangerous chaos on urban roads, as well as annoyances such as open pipes and "fart can" mufflers tooling through residential neighborhoods (often simply because the owners believe it to be such a cool statement).

--Mike

Randy M

Mike, What a great time you and your friends (or lack of) must have when you have get togethers, YAWN......

mlincoln

Hi Randy,

FWIW, this means "Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives." The sin that Rick politely pointed out that I should avoid. Et tu, Randy?

--Mike

Randy M

Makes sense if I was debating you which I am not. Don't take that as agreeing w/ you. Just expressing my opinion of you. You socially inept tard.

Phil

well,
I learned a new word today. ad hominem ....looked it up all by myself! Now I just have to figure out how pronounce it.
my next project is too learn Haiku......I wonder how ad hominem could be used in a haiku?.

mlincoln

Dear Randy,

Dictionary use cases are examples (they are e.g., not i.e.). In other words, another perfectly acceptable example of an ad hominem attack would be "To call someone a boorish, friendless clod instead of engaging him on the merits". Again, et tu?

--Mike

ps--but I was on the State Championship Debate team in Michigan in high school...and there is a certain schadenfreude (you'll have to look that up, I expect) in tweaking the jocks now that life's tables have turned.

Phil

I looked up another word
turns out that schadenfreude was the word of the day 3/10/2000

mlincoln

...and a word any German-car loving driver whose mother was also ethnic German should know! (maiden name Steinemann--she grew up speaking German before learning English in public school)

Best, Mike

Phil

Mike,
Are you saying we should take a malicious satisfaction in the misfortunes of others, because we love driving german cars? Or we should just know what the word means?

mlincoln

Well, the literal meaning in German is "guilty pleasure"...which I used in the sense of taking a "guilty pleasure" in flummoxing the jocks at last. (meaning "confuse" or "perplex").

Best, Mike

Randy M

Used without permission from Flying Finn. I thought it particularly fitting for you.
Best,
Randy M

mlincoln

How attractive...you new avatar? If you're feeling just a bit too frustrated and inarticulate just now, just drive to the grocery aisle, lie down, and kick your feet and scream...that always works for kinder.

Mike

Phil

ahh I see
thank you for putting the meaning of "flummoxing" it saved me the time of looking it up.